WTF Portland

Yep, they nearly killed someone the other night.  Shot him in the head.  I guess Trump was unhappy with the PPB supposedly using the kiddie gloves on the protesters (they certainly are not) so he sent in the feds to bust some heads.

what's a militarized federal agent?

Great, more out of town agitators. 

If these guys have been there for weeks they are staying in hotels.

Which ones?

Possibly the same ones they park their rented vehicles at while they sleep...

And who rents them the vehicles? 

Good place for a protest.

things like that.

The violence that the police and feds are waging on people in Portland is sad, and seems like a blueprint that Trump plans to take to other cities leading up to the election. Bet Trump ramps up his LAW AND ORDER narrative and uses Portland as his prop. Meanwhile, local police are emboldened and becoming more violent, they don't give a shit about the constitution. This video from 6:00 am this morning shows how they will treat a bicyclist with a BLM sign for biking in front of the (in)Jusice Center when they just announced via twitter that the park and the road are closed. https://twitter.com/DanMcKATU/status/1283748895600721920

Portland seems like a pretty bi-polar place.

Like Seattle,  Portland used to be a nice place to visit,  or even live.  These days it's just a bunch of homeless junkies shitting in the streets.

In the past I thought of PDX as a potentially good place for a young person seeking the "medium - sized city"  vibe but hey,  that was a few decades ago.

Seattle is diverse, but Portland has it beat for extrimism.   We don't have as many far-right neo-Nazis kooks or as many far-left Wiccan Vegan strippers.

I've suspected it is very much a political  move.  Poorly transacted, not so necessary.  He will attack any blue state in any way.

the boogeyman ain't coming by caravan

“Each night’s protest is now turning into a protest of the night before’s police activity. And so when people say we want this to stop, it can’t stop because today’s protest will be about what the feds or the Portland Police Bureau did yesterday," said Gregory McKelvey, an activist and critic of the police response.

“There's really this battle that we’re having right now — a communications war over who’s a ‘good protester’ and who's a ‘bad protester.' And what the police and the mayor are trying to do is turn the city against the people that are out protesting," he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/chaotic-protests-prompt-soul-searching-0...

Oregon Students Start Campaign To Remove Police In 18 Districts

https://www.opb.org/news/article/police-schools-oregon-remove-beaverton-...

what side are the fascists on thom?

"If you aren’t in Portland, OR, you likeky don’t know how bad things are here. Even folks who live here don’t know, unless they’re on Twitter, or follow indie journalists, or are out in the streets.... For 48 days, people have been gassed and beaten in the streets. Shot in the head with less lethals. Hospitalized. Arrested. Masks ripped off. Maced point blank. Wrists broken. Bruised. Brutalized. Tackled and restrained while having seizures."

https://twitter.com/ThornCoyle/status/1283797054771220481

IMO that's political theater though. There isn't any real chain of communication that exists, nor "actual" action taken involved in writing stern letters to people who really don't even acknowledge you or your electorate, unless it's to vilify you in the press. They are asking way too politely for federal police to go ahead and investigate themselves and then get back to them with an answer when they are finished. What happens on June 21 if no response? Another letter? More of the same. Do you think so?

Is it too much to ask congresspersons to actually physically go stand in between federal police and protesters? Put a little skin in the game?

A short essay on Johan Galtung's theories of positive vs. negative peace, for those who are unaware or unfamiliar:

http://www.activeforpeace.org/no/fred/Positive_Negative_Peace.pdf

>>>>>Is it too much to ask congresspersons to actually physically go stand in between federal police and protesters? Put a little skin in the game?

George Wallace wasn't afraid to get out there in the thick of it and put his body on the line standing up to the feds.

>>>>>We don't have as many far-right neo-Nazis kooks 

In all fairness, many of those people come across the river from Vancouver USA (or Gresham), but yeah, sadly some of them are locals. 

..

Here we go. Amping up Trump "Law and Order" propaganda. This is the current front page of Fox News website. DHS director coming to Portland tomorrow and I am sure protests tonight will be robust. 

Who's marching tonight? This occupation is the last straw. 

Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicl...

may come as a surprise to some here that this happens pretty regularly in communities of color, usually by ICE looking to snatch up "illegals".

here's a new  tweet related to ^^^^ this story

>>>George Wallace wasn't afraid to get out there in the thick of it and put his body on the line standing up to the feds<<<
 

at very minimum, all four of them should be standing on the federal courthouse steps to greet the acting secretary and demand their letter's answers in 3D

Feds are bringing in Striker armored vehicles:

..

WTF with that striker?  Ken, are you downtown?

Report back, please.

Here's my (unregarded) opinion --

The Seattle chaz republic went great for a while,  but then the shootings and killings made for some bad PR.

Also the lawsuits,  from local businesses,  and when the folks protested near the mayor's house,  that was Icky.
Don't riot too close to my pad,  OK ??

So after the murders,  the Very Naughty people went to PDX for better Weather,  but cops there (in Portland) are famous for smacking people around if they get a little too rowdy.

While I love to joke around and always say "politics is silly"  the Seattle experiment got way out of hand with the shootings and killings,  although not much Mass Media publicity.  They wouldn't let the cops or ambulances in there,  but {{ they }} shot some kids and one died.

It all seemed staged to make the general anarchist faux - government look really Stupid,  and that happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/17/portland-protests-feder...

‘It was like being preyed upon’: Portland protesters say federal officers in unmarked vans are detaining them

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicl...

The Mayor and Governor want the Feds to leave.  You all are sitting on a powder keg.  Good luck.  Stay safe.

^^^^^^ YES YES

He gets my vote!

Jeff Merkley is so clear about the issues and in his responses. I love the guy. I'm glad that he didn't run for president when he was considering it. Someday...

Right?  Oregon needs to keep him as long as possible... but I bet he might have a chance at some sort of White House appointment in the next year....

Just got this notice from the Mayor's office: 

Members of the media,

Mayor Ted Wheeler and Portland Police Bureau Chief Chuck Lovell are holding a virtual press conference this afternoon at 2 p.m. to discuss the ongoing tensions in Portland, Oregon.

WHEN: 2 p.m., Friday, July 17, 2020

WHERE: Zoom online; Media/Attendee Link = https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81996852404

LIVESTREAM;  View on YouTube here.

Good legal Q&A: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-heck-are-federal-law-enforcement-office...

I also heard from a work colleague that the Feds have been on the streets since Monday, but media was slow to catch up.

Wow. Made that media salesperson's month with that contract, they did.

hardcore bootlicker stars and bars waving bible toting gun waving thin blue line/punisher skull wearing young little meathead Republicans in that subset there.

All of this because the police really, really, just want to retain the right to continue killing people without any accountability or oversight.

damn congresspeople talkin bout "pweese weave".

And what happened to all the patriots ready to take up arms against government tyranny? Where are they? They cool with all the secret police? 
 

then there's this little gem: https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-union-head-met-dhs-head...

police unions must be disabled, dismantled, and outlawed

The feds are gassing the fuck out of Portland right now. Protests have grown and people are pissed. 

So painful and infuriating. Also sickening.

Let the lawsuits begin;

 https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/07/oregon-will-sue-federal-police-a...

>>Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum announced late Friday that her office would sue several federal law enforcement agencies over their response to Portland protests and launch a criminal investigation into an incident of force by federal officers.

Rosenblum is seeking a temporary restraining order to stop federal officers from detaining Portlanders, arguing federal agencies seized and detained Oregonians without probable cause. She said the state’s lawsuit in federal court will name the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Federal Protection Service as defendants.

“The federal administration has chosen Portland to use their scare tactics to stop our residents from protesting police brutality and from supporting the Black Lives Matter movement,” Rosenblum said in a statement. “Every American should be repulsed when they see this happening. If this can happen here in Portland, it can happen anywhere.”

Rosenblum also said the state and the Multnomah County District Attorney’s office would criminally investigate the shooting by federal officers of Donavan La Bella in the face with a less-lethal munition Saturday, critically injuring him. La Bella’s hands were above his head when he was shot.

Earlier Friday, U.S. Attorney for Oregon Billy Williams called for an investigation into reports that federal officers had detained two protesters without probable cause. Williams had previously launched a federal investigation into the shooting of La Bella.

Rosenblum’s announcement comes after several days of criticism traded between officials in Oregon with federal officials over the continued use of force and chemical weapons by federal officers on Portlanders.

“I share the concerns of our state and local leaders – and our Oregon U.S. senators and certain congressional representatives – that the current escalation of fear and violence in downtown Portland is being driven by federal law enforcement tactics that are entirely unnecessary and out of character with the Oregon way,” Rosenblum said. “These tactics must stop.”

-- K. Rambo

>And what happened to all the patriots ready to take up arms against government tyranny? Where are they? They cool with all the secret police? <

you mean all the tough guys that have guns and hate the gubment?

Chris Hayes interview with Gov. Kate Brown - she's clear about what's going on.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-terrifying-for-citizens-oregon-gov-r...

https://twitter.com/naveedajamali/status/1284275465608237056?s=12

And Pelosi really believes she can run out the clock until elections?!?

She needs to go.

^What should she do? 

Something, anything

IMMEDIATE investigations would be a great start

Protest pics of the week

From Willamette Week story: https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2020/07/18/federal-officers-and-portla...

Tons of gas downtown and I think the Portland police union hall has a fire. 
 

but damn these feds are viscous! This guys just gets beat with batons and takes it. Tough gentleman  https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284726088187310080

>>>>>but damn these feds are viscous! 

Thick, dense, and slowly oozing?

^^^ LOL!

Trump is going to have these clowns out in every major city on November 4th when he refuses to leave the White House....

There aren't that many clowns. 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-meadows-trump-democratic-cities_n_5f...

Thom? 

>>> There aren't that many clowns.  <<<

I read that many of the Homeland Security guys are actually football players, picked up and "trained". Can't remember where I read it. There could be an endless supply of brain injured guys available for this sort of work.

https://www.facebook.com/100012680239266/videos/1008042816295050/UzpfSTE...

live feed

I know you can get Mexicans for day labor jobs at Home Depot, but where do you go to get these football players?, are they outside of Lowe's?

You know it's gonna get stranger, let's get on with the show.

"...but where do you go to get these football players?, are they outside of Lowe's?.."

Actually they lurk around 'Big Lots'.

My daughter-in-law posts live video every night on Facebook, sometimes 2 or 3 different feeds. I try to check in periodically but it's pretty hard to watch.

Andrew Mercado has a good live Facebook feed. 
 

Meanwhile, Portland police continue to attack their bosses (elected city leaders) verbally by day, and their employers (citizen protesters) physically by night.

This is why the police must be defunded and reorganized. It's a moral imperative.

Ask yourself why you aren't being shown any photos of this alleged "police union hall fire" anywhere? 

That's because there wasn't a fire at all. It was a road flare, and a dumpster fire going on outside in the street.

What entity of power and governance will get this under control?

By "this" I assume you mean the absolutely out of control police brutality going on and total absence of accountability and oversight?

The citizens are the entity of power and governance which must to do that work. And to back down at this point would be to legitimize it all. 

And yeah, a lot of citizens are likely going to get hurt in the process.
 

Portland get up stand up

Our current means besides elections is litigation which lags and is mostly useless. 

The lawyers we are paying for are rewarded for slow rolling as much as possible. 

>>>The lawyers we are paying for are rewarded for slow rolling as much as possible<<
well yeah, they're people "at work."

Litigation is like 1/3 of an approach to defunding. Litigation isn't useless, it's just boring as fuck. It is valuable because it is a wild card that holds resources hostage that can't really otherwise be budgeted for, or used against someone else. Litigation informs police policy, it holds voters accountable, and it also establishes case law.

cutting budgets (and resultingly, the actual, physical police footprint and role) is the second. 

direct action leading to reform is the third. This is already working.
 

None of these will effectively change much on their own, but as a 3-pronged approach they cover the bases pretty well.

So as political theatre,  how do local Business owners react to all of it when paid agitators jump around,  shout,  break store windows and such ?

Does that make for a better environment where they can run their grocery store,  hair salon,  Comic Book shoppe ?

Or does it freak out people that don't want to visit Portland any more because there are Funny people fighting in the Street ?

I think that local business owners are starting to get bored with the theater groups by now.  Probably not helping to bring in any business.

Let's say I have a Farm Stand in the field by the Road,  with Eggs,  Blueberries and Broccoli for sale.  If people want that stuff they can put a few bucks in the box and take their produce.

However,  if there are weird people jumping up and down,  setting shit on Fire and yelling,  the average person will not want to stop and purchase Eggs,  Berries and Vegetables.

So I politely ask them to leave,  and not return.  Is there a local cop - shop to back me up ?

so, you are ok with unidentified armed soldiers abducting american citizens because of ANYTHING?

never took you as an apologist for fascisim....

He's on planet mumblefuck, turtle.

So let's say I have these uninvited Hooligans ruining my Broccoli farm stand,  and they won't leave.

Cops can't be bothered to do anything,  so they (Hooligans)  are raping my Broccoli and frightening away customers.

What choices have I got to eradicate the Schmucks and get my Broccoli biz running again ?

It's not 1977 any more.  I can't just start blasting with the Super Soaker water thang.  That's probably trouble,  although considered normal defense of private land back when.

I could spray them with Bug Spray,  but I don't keep that stuff around.  Probably land me in County Jail,  even though they are trespassing.

Can't whack them with a stick;  might get charged for assault.

Anyway,  I feel bad for the PDX biz owners that have to put up with this Theatre of riotry every evening.  No one feels safe visiting their Deli or Dry Cleaner shoppe.  But they still owe Rent $$ and no income.

Riot theater actors get to act like spoiled brats,  trash a bunch of stuff they don't own,  and the taxpayer ends up paying for the Cleanup.

It's sort of Fucked Up.  Reminds me of the 1960's and 1970's when the feds infiltrated the entire anti-War movement to make Riots,  and make the {{ Actual }} peaceful protestors look Bad.

Same shit,  different year.  Everyone falls for it still.

so.....its OK for this to happen because the govt may be creating the problem vis a vis agent provocateurs? 

so round everyone up and maybe the will get the bad guys....who they will then let go?

what percentage of protestors do you believe are paid agent provocateurs?

how does this help the broccoli farmer?

Aside from a night or two of serious looting right after George Floyd's murder, the only buildings getting trashed are the police stations and to a lesser degree, courthouses.   I personally don't like attacking courthouses, but I am far more worried about police brutality and racial bigotry in policing than some graffiti and broken windows.   Downtown businesses have been slow at night anyway because of the Covid thing and outside a four to six block area around the justice center downtown and in the immediate vicinity of a couple other police precincts and related buildings, like the police union hall, in other parts of town, things are pretty normal in 98% of the rest of the city.  

I was talking with my parents yesterday and they refused to believe me when I explained that what is happening on the ground is nothing like how it is portrayed on TV.

^^ Actually I don't agree with most of your statements,  but if you have Children,  tell them not to go out and riot.

Back in the day, we had "Rock Concerts" and "Discotecas"  where kids could go and have safe,  harmless fun.

Statement in reference to Rootbeer Turtle comment.  I mostly agree with PDX Ken post,  even if he does a bit of rioting ;)

Are broccoli and blueberries harvested within the same week?   I didn't think so.  

D.Stu, I understand that you are concerned about businesses and vegetables, but from what I've seen on the feeds the BLM folks and people protesting others being disappeared haven't been destructive. Rather, they've pretty much been contained unto themselves. It's painful to watch the gas being lobbed by the Feds disperse into the faces and eyes of the folks on the streets.

Have you actually seen any of the live feeds?

"...Are broccoli and blueberries harvested within the same week?   I didn't think so..."

With the right timing,  absolutely Yes.
However,  I don't gas the Vegetables,   or invite weird people to jump around yelling at the vegetables.

I can barely afford fuel and some temp labor folks,  much less pay idiots to leap around and chant slogans.

Tractors break,  other farm equipment needs repair,  Fuel,  labor,  insurance,  STUFF.  It all adds up.

Definitely not enough time to deal with misguided individuals showing up to yell at the Berry vines.

Go chant your opinion in your local Mall, and don't break my stuff.

planet mumblefuck

(my allotment of being disrespectful half used up for today - I just get bewildered , by the bewildered)

Trump just announced that he is sending his mercenaries to other cities, Reuters reports: 

https://apple.news/A-7hGezYhS8ar9Zd98v4kOA

I doubt their rentals have run-flat tires.

I recommend home-made spike-strips and some good running shoes.

I'm sure there is a Yootoob video for each of those subjects.

how come they weren't deployed to the KKK rallies when they ran that young woman over?

^^^^^^^ exactly!

Down at the justice center right now.  Hundreds and hundreds of protesters and everything is peaceful.  Not a cop in sight 

https://www.facebook.com/sharon.sperry09/videos/10216900290731151/UzpfST...

Live FB feed

https://www.almanac.com/plant/broccoli

https://harvesttotable.com/how_to_grow_broccoli/

Some Broccoli tips.

One thing that makes them grow better is to jump up and down,  while throwing bricks.

My son drove from Portland to Olympia this weekend and said he saw cops everywhere along the interstate pulling cars over.

Both here and in other places I've seen the term "disappeared" used to describe what is happening to some of the protesters. While I am not a fan of what appears to be going down (I say appears because it looks like a lot of the reporting is biased on both sides), the term disappeared seems to be an overreach. While the protesters do vanish for a short while they are reappearing. When a person is disappeared they either never resurface and are either killed or imprisoned without trial for an inderterminate period of time. Sometimes, years later, their families are told they are alive but have been in detention for the last few years. I haven't seen reporting that nobody knows what has happened to these detained past a few hours or a day at most. The term disappeared is misinformed at best and disingenuous at worst.

Tony, how long must a protester disappear before he or she can be described as "disappeared"?

What would be a better term for it Tony?

Correct. "Disappear" isn't accurate enough. It's called kidnapping, which is an actual crime.

A measure 11 felony crime, in Oregon, in fact. 

In criminal law, kidnapping is the unlawful transportation, asportation and confinement of a person against their will. 

What would be a better term for it Tony?

I think the terms detained and/or snatched up are much better terms to use. Kidnappings MAY be more accurate but that is ultimately for a court to decide. 

The common usage of the term disappeared when it comes to political discourse is to kidnap or arrest and then imprison or kill (a political opponent) without due process of law.. However distasteful and possibly illegal what is going on is, people aren't being killed or imprisoned without due process (ie: trial) without anyone knowing what happened. To describe what is happening as people being disappeared when they have not been weakens that sides positions in the debate. Don't be happy it's happening but describe it as it is, not a word bite that makes it sound more sinister. 

100

fight the power!

>>>However distasteful and possibly illegal what is going on is, people aren't being killed or imprisoned without due process (ie: trial) without anyone knowing what happened.<<<

Um. Police killing black and brown people without any due process (like George Floyd) accountability  or even information after the fact (like Breonna Taylor) is the *actual reason* why these protests ever began in the first place.

These are police officers. We don't use words like "snatched up". We use actual, well defined, commonly understood words that have legal meaning and weight.

Just like the ones they will use against you when it's your turn.

1)A person commits the crime of kidnapping in the second degree if, with intent to interfere substantially with another’s personal liberty, and without consent or legal authority, the person:

(a)Takes the person from one place to another; or

(b)Secretly confines the person in a place where the person is not likely to be found.

pretty simple English there, don't you think? Do you really need a judge and a bunch of lawyers to explain that definition to you?

but maybe you'd rather just sit there with your little razor blades, trying to chop up words and redefine definitions?

come on man, really...

that's what lawyers do...

^

It remains to be seen if there is a legal authority for the detaining and taking them from one place to another. That is why I said MAY. 

I was simply saying that use of the term disappeared appears to me to be improper usages since as far as I know none of those detained have been killed or imprisoned without anyone knowing it. For example, an outspoken critic of the Chinese government is grabbed from their location and is disappeared by forces of the government. All attempts to find said person are ignored and givine the answer we don't know what happened to them. Years go by with no word as to the whereabouts of that person. They have been disappeared. That is not what is happening in Portland. 

I wonder how many years it will take for that legal decision. 

I think the terms detained and/or snatched up are much better terms to use. Kidnappings MAY be more accurate but that is ultimately for a court to decide. 

The common usage of the term disappeared when it comes to political discourse is to kidnap or arrest and then imprison or kill (a political opponent) without due process of law.. However distasteful and possibly illegal what is going on is, people aren't being killed or imprisoned without due process (ie: trial) without anyone knowing what happened. To describe what is happening as people being disappeared when they have not been weakens that sides positions in the debate. Don't be happy it's happening but describe it as it is, not a word bite that makes it sound more sinister. <<<<

If what is happening now is an initial stage before full-blown "disappearance"; and the current entropy and trajectory with the administration leave open such as a distinct possibility; would it be unreasonable to "connect the dots" (into the future) in order to get ahead of the curve & prevent such an eventuality?

It would seem to me that once we pass the threshold of people actually getting disappeared (for greater lengths of time or permanently), it'll be that much more difficult to publicly speak about it; let alone reverse its course.

So, as much as it's not "full-blown", it's not unreasonable to me to speak of it as such.

Ask Javs about the “disappeared.”   His country lived through Pinochet's regime when academics, writers, and political dissidents would disappear and never come back (they were flown out over the ocean and thrown out of helicopters).   Speaking of “mom” protests, also remember the “Madres de Plaza de Mayo” in Argentina who met every day at a plaza in downtown Buenos Aires in public defiance of bans on demonstrations to remember their children who were among the 33,000 “desaparecidos” in that country’s “dirty war.”  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_of_the_Plaza_de_Mayo

But Portland is not having it.   Thousands gathered last night at the justice center to protest the federal occupation, kidnapping of people off the streets, and of course, the killing of black Americans at the hands of the police:

After rallying at the justice center, the people marched through the streets of downtown.  Very peaceful and didn’t see a single act of vandalism.  Also didn’t see a single cop anywhere.  That was strange and liberating.  I have been to many protests downtown and there is always a large and very visible police presence.   But not last night with not a cop in sight.  The protesters did a good job of blocking the streets and redirecting traffic in a calm, organized, and non-threatening manner.

“whose streets?  Our streets!   Say her name!  Say her name!”

After an hour of marching, the people made it back to the justice center and it was basically a big block party.  At about 11:30, some protesters started banging on the boarded up federal courthouse where Trump’s goons were holed up.   At one point, the cops opened a little hatch and threw a flash bang and smoke bomb out, but otherwise they stayed hidden inside.  Some of the protesters were beating on the boards covering the doors and windows with skateboards, but it did no damage:

 I left right after midnight, but later saw on twitter how someone figured out they could use their skateboards as levers and managed to pry the hatch open.   According to the news, people then started throwing firecrakers and donuts into the hatch and that’s when the cops finally emerged and all hell broke loose.

Pics from my SIL.

Appreciate the report ken.

Ken, I watched a live feed for about 20 minutes from about 1:00 a.m. on - on 3rd, at a Fed building of some sort I believe. A lot of smoke, loud bangs, and the chanting voices of protesters. The guy streaming the feed spoke a lot but didn't have much to say. The line of cops (PPB and Federal) along the sidewalk in front of the building was there and then suddenly disappeared. The stream was exhausting to watch.

...

wall st. needs a more stable regime...

I watched 2 streams last night,  they sprayed bear spray out of the multiple "murder holes" at first,  then later came out and started shooting off tear gas, percussion gernades, and shooting rubber bullets.  It appeared the feds came from at least 3 different locations, from both sides of the building and from within it.  Seemed like the massive march was peaceful, with a small group of sporters trying to throw water bottles, and other crap, into the murder holes (which would occasionally open up and bear spray or projectiles of some sort would come out.

I definitely liked the tennis racket lobbing the tear gas back...

But my fave was the leaf blower brigade, blowing the mace out of everyones face, lol

Would you care to expand on that post, Dise? What exactly is in the appropriations bill? Does is give more or less money to ICE? Does it approve more or less detention beds? Does it approve children being taken from their parents? Does it give money for the wall?

Now that it has passed House appropriations, is it law?

Sirota's tweet did its job.

Google is your friend, BK.

Ultimately this lets them off the hook in a huge way with minimum interference.

I already know what's in the bill. Do you? I don't love it, but recognize that lame compromises are part of the process.

Who is "them," and how does it let them off the hook with minimum interference?

When Bernie votes to approve it in Senate, you'll say, "he had to because that's how the system works."

I think the whole fucking point Bk is that they just rubber stamped it without a peep...funding the service that's rounding up and terrorizing citizens, dude.

How do you know it was "without a peep?" It's a bipartisan committee, which means there were all sorts of "peeps," from both sides, before it passed. The committee itself covers a broad political spectrum.

My understanding is that the bill directly addresses a whole bunch of the ICE bullshit. Will it cure it? No? Can it make things better? Yes.

It'll never be what you want.

Exactly, turts! O/T They (60% democrats) also rubberstamped trump's military budget. I bet BK is all for that, too. 

Dennis Kucinich was asked why he voted against the patriot act. He said because he read it. 

You saw what they did to him. Gerrymandered him out of his seat in congress.

The corruption is deep my friends.

What do you think 9/11 was about?

That would be a losing bet, Dise. It's not what I'm for or against. I'm a realist. There's no way in hell that the military budget, DHS, ICE, and all that other shit is getting slashed, not with a Republican Senate and Trump having the final say. There isn't going to be a revolution, so you take the compromises you can. Where you see "rubber stamping," I see the compromises.

Don't like it? Too fucking bad. Want to make me the bad guy for pointing out the obvious? Have at it. It doesn't change the fact that you're pissed that your pipe dream didn't come true.

How about you political Einsteins lay out a VIABLE path to reform? After all this time you still can't do it. It's just blame, blame, blame; berate, berate, berate.

Can't get the other cities on board. Give up. Quit. Move.

Lee

Serrano

De Laurio

Royball-Allard

Pingree

Meng

Clark

Frankel

Watson Comeman

The above list are members of the Progressive Caucus who also sit on the House Appropriations Committee. Do you think that they love the bill? Do you really think that they rubber stamped it without debate? Why not accuse them of being war mongers who want to tear apart families and put children in cages? It's these so-called Progressives who allowed it. It sure as hell wasn't me. I voted to put "real" progressives in both the House and Senate. It looks like your California Progressives suck donkey dick.

Or, maybe it's a game of politics that they know they have to play.

corporate dems don't want any real change. this is very obvious. maybe you're blind if you can't see it, or you're totally OK w/ how things are -- if that's one's opinion, ok. 

it's why schumer and pelosi spent over 15mil this primary season killing progressive challengers. this is a fact. 

this is the same faction of the party that biden belongs to. 

they don't want everybody having health insurance. 

they don't care about the environment. 

they don't care about regulating wall st. 

they don't want to stop the corporate influence. 

things are great for them right now. 

which is why biden said this year, "nothing will fundamentally change". 

<<<>>>When Bernie votes to approve it in Senate, you'll say, "he had to because that's how the system works."

actually, we'll call bernie out and tell him why he should've voted against. 

neoliberals rubberstamp, party first, fuck policy that helps humans.

surprised you have never noticed this. progressive voters and supporters of bernie have always called him out on his shit. just b/c bernie did this or that, or voted this way or that way, doesn't means he's sba i've criticism just b/c we like the guy's platform. lol. and if we do call him out, you'll say we're having a temper tantrum and we didn't get what we wanted. it's a lose lose coming from you. 

one of the biggest differences between bernie/aoc/etc supporters compared to centrists/gop/trump supporters. zero allegiance based on party alone. fuck that. that's stupidity. 

Of course it's stupidity. It's politics.

I listed the 9 Progressives who "rubber stamped" the bill. What's their excuse?

i'm not sure. 

are they progressives? who has donated to their campaigns? 

why did schumer and pelosi spend millions killing progressives challengers this primary season; those challengers endorse policy that most democrats support, like m4a, which almost 80% of democrats support. 

pyramid - is it hard knowing everything?

knowing how others think

and how they feel

and why

black and white only

I'm right,  you're wrong

and on and on, over and over, endlessly
 

bry like

clean your record, it has a skip ( Is that psychobabble? - or a metaphor....)

and just to annoy you, you /we would be in big trouble without Pelosi ---  I am sure you can't grasp that one...

>>> doesn't means he's sba <<<

What does sba stand for in this instance, pyramidheat? I looked it up and was shown more than a few meanings. Thanks.

judit -- that's a typo. 

should read : he's not above criticism. 

lltd -- i don't know everything. lol. 

what i do know is what a centrist is, and how they have been trying to stop progressive policy from taking shape in this country -- just like the GOP. 

i don't know how you think.  i do know you're an asshole tho. 

remember when you stated "all lives matter"?  

that's what trumpers/racists say and believe. how's that make you feel? 

Lots of different meanings:

 Stolen Bases Attempted (baseball) ~ Student Bar Association ~ Southeastern Bowling Association ~ Senior Bowlers of America ~

Space-Based Antenna ~ Saskatchewan Band Association (Saskatchewan, Canada)  ~ Slut By Association ~

I'm not sure how any of this applies to Bernie.  Looking forward to learning.  

Oh a typo.  Never even considered that.  Thx for the clarification.

Thanks for the explanation. It's so true.

Separate subject, I wonder what some of these conversations would look/be like without referring to people as what their ideology is perceived to be, like centrist, progressive, neo this or that. Just thinking. Some of us are not just one thing.

BK, I don't know who all those people are or why they did what they did. 
 

just shows how much better the right has been in leveraging their power. They don't compromise but the dems have to? 
 

There  should be loud vocal response from democrats...

Quite the cop-out, Turts. They are the Progressives who voted for the bill. It kind of discounts your theory that the Democrats rubber stamped it. The majority of those Dems are in the far left caucus. Like it or not, they have to compromise. It's called politics.

You all are acting like all this politicking is something new. It's easy as shit to point out the problems: shitty deals, power grabs, wielding money to buy influence, etc. People have been writing about it forever, over 5,000 years. Problem is, nobody has come up with a viable plan to end it. 

There isn't going to be a revolution. Short of that, you make and take compromises. I'm sure the far right hates parts of that appropriations bill, and that their people rubber stamped some far left shit.

I've been following Eric Greatwood...

https://www.facebook.com/veteranforpeace/



His camera is up on a tall pole and he get's good footage, check him out .

I know politicians compromise for fucks sake.

They could have made an issue about it?

To not make it a big point of contention, now? Have you paid any attention to how congressional Republicans have acted over the last 30 years when in control?

we'ee teetering on martial law but hey gang, lets all play along!

Live feed right now;

https://www.facebook.com/sharon.sperry09/videos/10216909013709220/

What's your solution, Turts? Political gridlock? Shut down the government?

Those are pretty much your only options, other than compromise.

Again, how about thinking out some viable solutions? You can call me "obtuse" again, but that does little to solve the problems.

I get the impression that quite a few people have read reactions to the appropriations bill, but not the text itself. Here's the press release on it. After reading it, tell me how it's a "win" for Republicans. I see a whole lot of compromise. https://appropriations.house.gov/news/press-releases/appropriations-comm...

republicans get what they want. 

dems give the republicans what they want. 

b/c they want mostly the same shit. 

republicans never gives the dems what they want -- and if they do "compromise", it's b/c the starting point was so extreme, they end up where the compromise is still very conservative. it's never the other way around. why? same team, just different methods of reaching goal. 

bk it seems like you're saying we still have to submit to the two party system, and that's just the way it is. dems must compromise. republicans must compromise (they don't). 

i guess the republicans are just better at negotiating to get what they want. stronger passion to destroy. dems are kinda apathetic, which makes them side w/ the republicans -- they say their on our side, but their actions prove otherwise. 

I have never said that we need to submit to the 2 party system. I have said, over and over, that the only way to break it is for a viable candidate to run as a 3rd party. C'mon, you were pretty unhappy with me for saying that Bernie dropped the ball on that. I guess I'll never understand how all those Bernie supporters who hate the 2 party system were so for him running as a Dem, and then being pissed because it was stacked against him. It's a head scratcher for me.

There are 94 Progressives in the House, which is about 40% of the Democrats. Bring that up to 50% and add in a Progressive President, then we have something. It would be helpful to have some in Senate too.

Until then, yeah, there have to be shitty compromises. If you have a better idea that would work, I'd love to hear it.

>>> Separate subject, I wonder what some of these conversations would look/be like without referring to people as what their ideology is perceived to be, like centrist, progressive, neo this or that. Just thinking. Some of us are not just one thing. <<<

real good thought 

and most I believe are not just one thing.

I believe it's easier for some to have a boogeyman.

I also believe that most don't understand how shit works.

It takes more than destroying babylon to fix the systemic fuckery.

and no one has a magic wand to fix it.

so here we are...

BK you keep putting words in my mouth, insulting me, and claiming you know what I think. You seem to get off on bickering here. When I criticize democrat leaders for not putting up a fight, I'm not attacking you, I'm angry they let the GOP succeed, time after time. I don't know if you're aware, but Sanders suspended his campaign months ago. I still support his platform, supposedly biden does too, so what's your beef?

Strength (as of yesterday) is 114 federal officers from FPS, ICE, CBP, and us marshals, as identified in DOJ filing in response to ACLU's filing for injunction backing journalists and legal observers. It's at the end of page 9. 
 

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6999501/7-21-20-US-Response-T...

Where did I put words in your mouth, and where exactly did I insult you? Damn, your skin got thin.

It's astounding that you "know" that they didn't put up a fight. When you read the bill as passed, the compromises are apparent. You say that I'm putting up a fight. I say that I'm calling out the ridiculous statements. There's no way we can move forward unless we all see the reality of the situation. 

In literally your first reply to my post. You just can't resist bickering with people here, can you?

When Bernie votes to approve it in Senate, you'll say, "he had to because that's how the system works."

I didn't even mention Bernie in my post. lmao talk about thin skin dude. Just leave me out of your never ending man hen spats here, ok? 

Lee

Serrano

De Laurio

Royball-Allard

Pingree

Meng

Clark

Frankel

Watson Comeman

I didn't vote for or support any of these so-called progressives and won't be voting for them. 

Do you have a viable solution to the problem, Dise?

Vote out the ones that don't represent me, and support those who do put up a fight. 

>What's your solution, Turts? Political gridlock? Shut down the government?<

until the decisions that $$ is free speech and corporations have the same rights as citizens is overturned....not much can or will happen in this country. if you want my real analysis. oh and abolish the electoral college while you're at it.

that's the ONLY solution(s).

HOWEVER.......there should be organized political opposition to what is happening from the dem front regarding the UNCONSTITUTIONAL detention of our citizens.

and BK, i dunno, but i believe bernie didn't run as a 3rd party because of said electoral system....its pretty rigged...brah.

Yes, Citizen's United needs to be overturned. None of us can see the future, so we have to guess. Let's say the next president, either Biden or Trump, gets 1-2 SCOTUS picks. Which Court would be more likely to overturn it? It may be neither, but which would. E more likely?

>>there should be organized political opposition to what is happening from the dem front regarding the UNCONSTITUTIONAL detention of our citizens.

There should be opposition from both major parties and every minor party, the same opposition that should have happened with the Patriot Act. Ironically, the most opposition should come from the NRA. After all, the 2nd Amendment has  a comma, and that's exactly why we are supposed to have the right to bear arms: to fight back against a government that is infringing on our rights in that way. Not that the NRA cares about that, but it's nice to dream.

another day of brian k schooling the bernie fans with sensibility and non-hyperbole. don't y'all get tired of it? 

JR, ever thought about running for office as a dem in seattle?

you'd be great....slick...support gay rights and weed...the arts....all while maintaining the status quo that your white privilege affords you....

..."singing i got mine and you got yours"....

Middle-aged, middle-class white dudes using "white privilege" against other middle-aged, middle class white dudes, on a dbmb, is pretty lol.

I think that JR has a teenage daughter who happens to be black. If so, I'm sure that he understands white privilege in a deeper way than most of us can comprehend.

i believe you are mistaken bk.

anyways it is with regards to keeping shit as it is...because that's good enough for him...

i know nuances are tough.

Does anyone to make you feel better to accuse others of white privilege? Maybe alleviate some of that white guilt?

And here comes Bk with the privilege measuring stick again.

:sigh:

>>> Middle-aged, middle-class white dudes using "white privilege" against other middle-aged, middle class white dudes, on a dbmb, is pretty lol. <<<

In case there's any confusion, if you look white you've had white privilege. So most of us on Viva have lived with white privilege our whole lives. You can walk or drive almost anywhere without looking over your shoulder, shop without being followed, etc. Acknowledge and move on.

In the '60s we learned this as white hippies with long hair in smaller or rural communities. We were stopped by the cops early and often and then let go with or without tickets or arrest. Short hair equaled privilege.

Work to create equity and cultural and racial justice. Come on.

Get better jobs and earn more money if you want privilege.

BK has decided he's "above" white privilege because his ancestors were in the holocaust.

because that's how white privilege works, you know...

Meanwhile, Portland mom says she was groped and assaulted by feds at protest:

https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/jennifer-kristiansen-portland-mom-arrested/

That was my point, Judit. If you're white you have that privilege. That's pretty much everyone here, equally.

Too bad, Bss, it's people like you, Turts and a few others accuse others of using and abusing it. You're the ones using it as a measuring stick. All I can do is shake my head and wonder who the fuck you all are to be playing that shit.

Decent coverage from last night here: https://twitter.com/PDocumentarians

feds smashed up a tent that has been feeding protesters, destroyed all of the food, grills, and tables, and also destroyed the cache of medical supplies that had been used to provide first aid to people brutalized by the police. For real.

In international law, targeting a medic is actually known as a war crime.

then again, so is CS gas...

yeah anyways

Portland mayor ted wheeler to protest tonight: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-to-att...

that's what i have experienced judit.

back when i had long hair and a big beard...i'd see moms pull their children in closer to them....stink eye....being threatened to being beat by cops....it's just a very small lick of what most people of color have had to endure...

and bk, i called WP on 'ol JR because...similar to your situation...the status quo is good enough. hey man i got a fat sack and a phish ticket...you know people are complacent. i however am not happy....for the majority of our citizens, life gets harder to make ends meet. i'd like to see that changed.

i'm working on my calls outs...ya know being a wuss and all have really had to work on it...

I love how you tell me what I think. That's some correlation you drew there for yourself.

That's BS Turts. You are saying that unless people have the same political views as you, then they are using their WP. That's some purity test you're putting on the nation. 

In Portland, it's now the new normal for police to obscure their identity:

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/07/22/portland-police-officers-are-hidin...

dis heartening pic Sorry All ... and i Love Oregon

6.8 grams, or, approximately the same weight as a 9mm bullet. Fired with compressed air up to 100 yards on target, at 200 MPH. 

https://fnamerica.com/products/less-lethal/projectiles/

the disclaimer even says "Misuse may result in injury or death. Avoid aiming at face or head."

this "less lethal" projectile is exactly what killed Victoria Snelgrove in Boston in 2004.

"The city agreed to a $5 million settlement with the Snelgrove family, who also settled a lawsuit against the gun's manufacturer. More than two years after Snelgrove was killed, Boston police destroyed the FN303 guns, saying they would turn them into sewer caps."

https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/06/10/rubber-bullets-protesters-victoria-...

no i'm saying if the DNC platform for the last 30 yrs has been good enough....then yeah....it has nothing to do whether you agree with me or not.

i don't know what or how you think other than apparent complacency similar to nedb. i get it...

If non-complacency is being holier than thou on a dbmb, then you win. If it's about how one votes and how they live their life, then you should perhaps ask questions rather than making stupid assumptions.

More journalists arrested last night 

https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-arrest-3-journalists-du...

You people...

hey bk suck a dick, namaste.

That "You people" was not meant to you, Bss.

I saw a clip last night of two medics in Portland being beaten by armed people (I don't know which ones) while the injured person they'd been attending to was left with no one caring for them. It stinks.

And to be clear; failure to disperse when police give a dispersal "order" is not a criminal offense in the state Oregon.

Nothing bad about or wrong with sucking a dick, Turtle. Nice that you're wishing him pleasure.

Apology accepted, Bry...er...I mean Turts.

lovin' you kidz...

ps. i know my shit also stinks....ask my old lady...

Breaking news from The Oregonian: City of Portland bans police from working with feds.... it's about time... the police union met w/ the feds last week....

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/portland-bans-police-from-wo...

We just filed a lawsuit.

Another good story from Willamette Week that includes video of the Mom brigade singing and protecting the protestors, as well as the Leaf Blower Brigade, who help direct the tear gas back at the gassers! 

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/07/21/portland-protesters-use-leaf-blowe...

Retired general says DHS secretary needs 'to be run out of' DC for 'bullshit' tactics in Portland

Honore claimed federal agents were 'wearing these uniforms as a function of intimidation'

"That uniform represents the cloth of our nation, for people who don’t draw overtime, who serve around the world at the direction of the national command authority, and it’s not to be used as an instrument of protest suppression ... that uniform is designed to blend into terrain, not to make you look like a warrior." Retired LTG Russell Honore said."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/honore-wolf-portland-protests-homeland-sec...

Mayor Ted Wheeler will be attending the protest tonight.

Here live streams, and an urgent message the Moms just posted;

https://www.facebook.com/lunar.sossy/videos/3196515973740497/UzpfSTEwMDA...

https://www.facebook.com/EricGreatwood/videos/10224127778201708/?__tn__=...

Live now: Mayor Wheeler addresses protesters

https://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/local/protests/portland-mayor-te...

Never thought we'd get to the point where there were no more live concert streams in the traditional sense, but instead, we've got the evening protest, and later, mini-riot live streams  

Mayor Wheeler is saying a lot of things that matter. He seems sincere, and open. I like him based on what I'm hearing.

There is so much to do!

Funny how they kept yelling "Fuck Ted Wheeler" after he said all the right things...   now (11:30pm), he's getting tear gassed with everyone else at the new fence infront of the fed building (and the F! Ted Wheeler starts on / off again), but he's been there for 20 minutes now...   even with the gassings

Which feed are you watching, Noodler?

The feed my d-i-l posted on Facebook said he didn't have a gas mask, and someone was asking someone else if the Mayor is still there?

https://www.facebook.com/hellojacobprescott/videos/316417429541561/UzpfS...


This one was good, Ted appears at about 56:51 on vid. This guy was in right place at right time. 




Watching Eric's now.

Thanks, lyn. These nights are hard to watch. I did see him walk to safety through the unhappy crowd.

Wishing you well.

Hey Judit, hope you are well <3. 
Yes, very hard as some are there to get their message out, others just want to create mayham.

I give Ted credit for putting himself out there...he stayed and got gassed too. 

He was also talking to a lot of the people and making some promises to help them...we'll see !
I know this is close to you so I can imagine for you how surreal it is. 

I posted 2 links above (w/ the Wall of Moms post, thurs 12:07am)...  I've been watching Erics too, the other kept freezing, and I also like Sharons streams (link wed 12:18 above), but she took the night off

Nice work, this has literally turned into a cocksucker thread.

TWO HUNDRED 

Wake up to find out!

so the house just crushed the sanders bill to cut the pentagon budget by just 10%. 

the house is controlled by the dems of course. 

what was the vite, BK? do you know? 

the house vote to cut pentagon budget by 10% failed 93-324. 

dems control the house. 

is this compromise and continuing the status quo b/c the same coorpoeate masters own both parties? 

thought so. 

40% of the Ds voted for the bill. Folks in states with reps that voted no got to elect better people.

^thats just sad. you don't think so? 

it was just 10% -- and the dems couldn't even vote yes. 

this is the issue guys. 

it's right in front of us. 

we can't have nice shit b/c of the neoliberals. 

the gop will never give us anything that resembles humanity. 

again, a dem controlled house voted it down. 

and people here get all upset when i day people like pelosi and harris must be voted out and are just as dangerous as their fellow gop'ers. 

It befuddles me. Last year, when they voted to increase the budget, the Pentagon was like, "dudes, we don't want or need any more money." You'd have to ask the people who voted to keep it as as why they did.

Elizabeth Warren voted yes 

Kamala Harris voted no

Top VP Contenders Diverge as Warren Votes 'Yes' and Harris Votes 'No' on Slashing Pentagon Budget to Fund Health and Education

Sen. Kamala Harris' no vote "makes her a dubious choice" to be Joe Biden's running mate, said one progressive organizer.

Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris, two leading contenders for the 2020 Democratic vice presidential nomination, voted opposite ways Wednesday on an amendment to slash the Pentagon budget by 10% and invest the savings in healthcare, housing, and education in impoverished U.S. communities.

Warren, a co-sponsor of the amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), voted in favor of the measure while Harris voted against. The amendment, led by Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Ed Markey (D-Mass.), was defeated by a margin of 23-77, with 24 Democratic senators voting no.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/22/top-vp-contenders-diverge-w...

those 24 senators are not on our team. 

good on warren. 

um, what pyramid said...

just pathetic.

SMH.