The Vulture Stone at Gobekli Tepe

This is really interesting. I've read quite a bit of the research, and it's definitely compelling.

My understanding is that there were strikes beginning around 12,800 BC with additional fragments from the same comet hitting the Earth over the course of the next 1200 years or so. This research seems to move the timeline a bit, based on the carvings at Goebekli Tepe.

Apparently an object (or objects?) as large as one mile across may have struck the North American ice cap, which would have been absolutely cataclysmic. 

This is a major discovery on par with the research that eventually helped us understand the extinction of the dinosaurs. We need to reconsider some things about Neolithic civilization, I think.

Sounds pretty speculative to me.

Diversions testing our faith.

Well,  the carvings, if they really do represent the constellations at the time, can define a time period, but the "proof" that they also record a giant comet impact seems to be lacking. Certainly an impact could have started the YD cooling, and affected human population and cultural development, but I think they're reaching when they say that these glyphs prove that.

So the arrangement of bird carvings matches the arrangement of constellations 2000 years before Gobekli Tepe was even built- and this is supposed to be proof of something? Really?

There is geological evidence for the impact event, Surf Dead. A debris layer with nano diamonds, etc. much like what we find at the KT boundary.

The GT carvings are interesting in their own right because they represent a human record of the event(s). That's what's significant here.

Intriguing!   The location of celestial bodies move or change from our perspective so they are relying on a computer program to guess what was in the night sky then.  I believe there have been at least 4 massive events like the asteroid impact that we only recently came to believe wiped out the dinos.(Chicxulub crater).  Most of these events are identified through soil analysis and many questions remain. These events cause breaks in the fossil records and not all the breaks were caused by asteroids. I'd only caution that this Gobekli Tepe interpretation is just that, some ones current theory. Lots of leaps taken. It has legs but soil is the key. I find this stuff to be fascinating.

Oh and is it me or does the Vulture look a bit like an Alien?

We don't have to "guess" the position of the constellations at any given point in history. It's relatively easy to model that with 100% accuracy.

Excellent. 

It's pretty unnerving to place an event like this so close to our time, isn't it?

Ok.  100%?  are you sure? Human record? Listen man, All I tried to do was advance the thread. If you looked for the positive you would have read that we agree on the soil analysis and the Kt asteroid. More in common than apart. Have a nice day.

Easy tiger. I'm educating you about the astronomy. We can indeed accurately place the constellations in the night sky at any point in history. 

And yes, I'm sure.

>> We can indeed accurately place the constellations in the night sky at any point in history. <<

Not if the cosmic debris altered the earth's axis. Duh.

You're making Neil deGrasse Tyson very angry right now, Ned.

Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't like to be angry, Ned.

  I don't believe there are any certainties in life. I think Neil and Sagan would say the same. The scientific method lives to test "100%" accuracy.   So even if you are educated in the field, you must have missed that day of class Mark. Can you think of any accepted theories that have changed?  My last post was trying to agree with you! Try being pleasant. And you dont really need to educate anyone, just talking would be a start.  go ahead, have your last word as you do. Im going back to the wall. Peace

So anyway, cool article Thom.

I didn't sense any unpleasantness.

There wasn't any.

Is there a megalith at GT depicting a pair of wadded up panties? That would be interesting.

Planet's axis is very interesting and I think it can be said that there was a reordering of the planets at one time in the past?

and Venus with it's retrograde rotation...was it a comet?

and what the fuck is wrong with Uranus!

Here's an article from '09 talking about the early stages of the research. Pretty interesting.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-y... 

My handle at the old spot a few years back was Gobekli Tepe for a while.

It's a really interesting site, Goodlight.

It's pretty obvious that a complex of that scale couldn't have been constructed by hunter gathers, right? You would need a food/water surplus and a specialist class to manage the design and construction.

Did a Comet Hit Earth 12,000 Years Ago?

as Mark pointed out, "A debris layer with nano diamonds"

it's obvious this happened....next question.  

It happened. The interesting part is figuring out what the impact on our ancient ancestors was, and how significant a role this event played in shaping human history.

>>> "A debris layer with nano diamonds" <<<

Is that where the "diamonds on the bottom of her shoes" came from?

Fly brings up some good points. Very interesting topic and i agree 100% with Fly, there are no absolutes here.

Great thread Thom..

<<<t's pretty obvious that a complex of that scale couldn't have been constructed by hunter gathers, right? You would need a food/water surplus and a specialist class to manage the design and construction

I'd have to agree. You dont see this type of architecture from transient civilizations just scraping to get by.  The whole thing kinda blew my mind when it came up a few years back.  I remember we had a pretty good discussion going about this with Hollis and Schnee and you at the time, St Mark.

Organic matter in the wall plaster dated to 9500 BC, these guys don't dispute that:

http://maajournal.com/Issues/2017/Vol17-1/Sweatman%20and%20Tsikritsis%20...

So just a mere 1400 year gap to fill with wild speculation...

>>>It's pretty unnerving to place an event like this so close to our time, isn't it?

i'm actually kinda surprised it doesn't happen more often

I'm looking forward to reading that study when I get some time, Martin. Thanks for posting it. 

Comet Shoemaker-Levy collides with Jupiter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiLNxZbpP20

very informative... had no idea about any of this before today.

See, this engineer's flight of fancy is what Thom considers "science"...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/academic-journal-runs-article-claiming...

>>>>>>and a specialist class to manage the design and construction.

aka The Cool Kids Table or Junior Admin

Here's an article from 2009 "debunking" an asteroid strike leading to the extinction of the dinosaurs.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090427010803.htm

Some fringe authors used star maps to "prove" that the Giza pyramids were built 10,000 years ago... do you think Graham Hancock is a real scientist? 

Just no proof they "were built 10,000 years ago" The Sphinx is around 5000 years old and it was there first.

Graham Hancock is a hack, his book is interesting though. 

I think Graham Hancock is a guy whose job it is to sell books, and he seems to be doing pretty well at that.

Bringing him into the discussion regarding the YD event strikes me as pretty disingenuous though, honestly. He's not the one leading the research, either at GT or on the ground regarding the YD impact.

Why bring him up, Martin, other than in an attempt to discredit the research?

Can you name any archaeologists working at GT who claim the carvings are related to anything in the skies? These Scottish engineers don't seem to have ever visited the site. 

It would be nice to have a comment by Klaus Schmidt.

...but I see he died in 2014

The Sweatman & Tsikritsis study you posted earlier suggests the carvings are indeed astronomical in nature. I didn't get time to finish reading it last night, but that was conclusion I reached after reading through​ the first section. Are those the Scottish engineers you're referencing?

It's pretty well-known that GT archaeologist Klaus Schmidt thought the symbols had purely ceremonial purposes, so I see your point. I would mention that Schmidt was not an expert in astronomy, which needs to be considered if we're basing our conclusions solely on his interpretation of the site. 

"his book is interesting though."

Underworld is the book I read,

he's not the hack I was thinking about though, that was Michael A. Cremo and his book Forbidden Archeology!

Yeah, Schmidt's arc isn't going to support these newer claims directly, but I'd also point out it wasn't that long ago that the hill was dismissed as a medieval burial ground by the scholars too.  Schmidt brought new understanding and now others are adding to that.

Hancock is a charming, charismatic, imaginative  presenter and writer, but legitimate scientific research and results are not is something he needs to earn his princely income.  Being a author/showman posing as a "researcher", coupled with his smooth and sincere delivery, its easy for him to  spin tales made of part legitimate scientific research mixed in with arcane clues, mystery, and fantastic images of prehistoric global advanced civilizations.  Hes got some people convinced that an underwater natural rock formation around Okinowa is really a man made  "Temple" or mounument.People lap that shit up., but its pure crapola. Of course its logical  for him to put his own spin on Gobekli Tepe which drives the genuine archaeologists  up the wall Im sure.

the only guy Im interested now, at least regarding ancient Egypt, is my boy Jean Pierre Hardin--hes the one to watch

Yes, Mark. Engineers, not archaeologists.

If anyone associated constellations with animals before Hammurabi, we don't know about it. These guys just assume the GT people used the same symbology as the Babylonians.

Fair enough, Martin. I did find their research pretty interesting regardless, and I plan to finish reading the study.

One point I want to make regarding archaeology is that for a long time, the science generally regarded cave paintings (for example) as purely literal pictures of animals, etc. It wasn't until the relatively modern science of archaeoastronomy came along that we started to garner a more sophisticated interpretation of these drawings as astrological in nature. I think that's a really important thing to consider in context of our discussion of GT.

As Goodlight​ pointed​ out, Schmidt's work on the site advanced our understanding significantly, but he isn't here to directly support or refute these newer interpretations. 

Hey, Martin, have you read or seen that crazy cool, Documentary by David Talbott  'Symbols of an Alien Sky' ??

it's really well done....and far out! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7EAlTcZFwY&list=PL74CD162A5D88095C

It blows my mind much like John Anthony West's 'Magical Egypt', although the production sucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSNV5m-qOAg&list=PLQn-WG2SBU0cDUVl88o5QF...

Nice to see you, jimfurn.

No, Roy, thanks for the link, checking it out now.

<<<the only guy Im interested now, at least regarding ancient Egypt, is my boy Jean Pierre Hardin

he has an interesting, we'll developed theory on construction of the pyramids, but he's really just an architect and not the one to hang your hat on regarding all of ancient Egypt, imo.

Good to see ya, Jim.

Always love your contributions.