Venezuela Revolution

Forums:

Looks like things are coming to a head in Venezuela.  The United States and several other countries announced today they are recognizing opposition leader Juan Guaido as the legitimate president, while Maduro shows no signs of stepping down.  Hope he sees the writing on the wall and flees, but I guess he still has the backing of the army and paramilitary units.  He also just announced he has broken off diplomatic relations with the US and given the embassy 72 hours to evacuate and leave the country.  Could get real ugly, real fast. 

My brother was just talking about how Venezuela might make for an inexpensive vacation because of the hyper-inflation, but I think we should hold off on making plans until things settle down a bit. 

didn't he win a popular election?

democracy....faux in the USA...

will not export it...

>>>>didn't he win a popular election?

He "won" with 67% of the vote, but many countries in the region have declared the election a fraud.   The opposition party did win control of the legislature, but Maduro quickly stripped it of its power.

If the people down there want Maduro out, that's there business, but we shouldn't intervene.

Do our elections have more than 60% turnout?

67% of the vote does not mean 67% voter turnout.

Donald Trump had less than 50% of the vote.

 

I know, I know....  devil

How many people came out?

 

Has any intervention in the history of the United States, save possibly ww2, worked?

>>>>How many people came out?

The videos I saw show a shit load of people out in the streets today.   Looked like hundreds of thousands.   Should be a long night in Caracas. 

>>>>Has any intervention in the history of the United States, save possibly ww2, worked?

There have been a lot of mess ups for sure, but Cuba in 1898, Grenada in 1983, Bosnia in 1995, and Kosovo in 1999 come to mind as being successful for both the US and the foreign country by most measures.    That being said, we should stay the fuck away from Venezuela.  It will interesting to see what happens when the 72 hours to evacuate the embassy are up.   It will really come down to whether the military stays loyal to Maduro.  The army is the real king maker down there.

seems like venezuela would be perfect for many inhabitants of the zone

I will respectfully disagree Portland...not sure on kosovo...

 

Yeah Hillman, we all want free shit and sit around on our cuelos all dia!!

isnt that what sanders/ocasio and the like are offering? free healthcare, education, guaranteed job (if you want one), $30K/year minimum wage, open borders, no immigration enforcement, no law enforcement. what could go wrong with that?

What about that will lead to a genocide? 

Not EVERYTHING needs to lead to a genocide. But in the above example it will probably be the free healthcare that does it.

>>> open borders, no immigration enforcement, no law enforcement

Who the fuck ever said they wanted that? That's crazy, Hillman. 

 >>>>open borders, no immigration enforcement, no law enforcement<<<<

 

 

>Who the fuck ever said they wanted that? That's crazy, Hillman.<

 

 

Same old tactic, lie about your opponent's position,  then criticize them based on your lie. Thought Hillman was smarter than that.

Back on topic. This could get serious.  I m guessing there is 60and change hours before Madro's diplomat expulsion time ends. Not sure if the expulsion apply to all Nations that broke ties or not.

Will the idiot use his military? I would think/hope not.

Will the military obey Maduro?

Google is my friend.

WIKI 

On 2 March 2015, President Maduro accused the United States of plotting a coup against him and demanded that the Embassy of the United States in Caracas reduced its staff from over 200 workers to 17 individuals within two weeks.[4][5]With about 232,500 applications made through the embassy in 2014, this created fears that difficulties would arise for the demand of visas by Venezuelans.[4]Despite Maduro's orders, the staff did not change at the embassy.[5]

 

I doubt the military will be used.

imagine if we bought health care for our citizens. people would not go broke/life savings. its obscene.

but no, we just $pend on death.

modern western democracy, how does it work?

I went to school with Leopoldo López.  He sure has put his whole family at risk....I'm not sure I have the balls he does. 

I heard that the Maduro people might shut off electricity and water to the embassy.   Lil' Marco Rubio has been running his mouth about how any attempt to harm the diplomats would be met with swift and forceful response.  I think he might just be pandering to the South Florida Latino crowd, but its no secret that Pence has a hard on for the idea of overthrowing Maduro.

We will see what happens with the embassy, but there is also talk that the self-appointed new president, Guaido, wants to work with international partners to start bringing in badly needed food and medicine.   That might require some sort of "humanitarian corridor" and could be used as justification for direct intervention:

Hungry People.jpg

U.S. Out

Russia In (our hemisphere)

Code Red on the Fuckness scale

 

Russia In (our government)

Russia sends two nuclear-capable bombers to Venezuela

The Tu-160 is capable of carrying conventional or nuclear-tipped cruise missiles with a range of 3,410 miles._104732050_mediaitem104732046.jpg

Them Russkis can blow us all up just fine from home.

Same old tactic, lie about your opponent's position,  then criticize them based on your lie. Thought Hillman was smarter than that.<<

 

Ha.  Why?  Because he says so?

Let's see what Pelosi has to say about it tonight if she can talk. hate to see that happen to anyone, she really needs to retire. repugs have stalled this too, there are no innocent parties here

hillman ????

wtf - retire - who????

TRUMP DUMP DUMBer than a rock is completely senile, dishonest, disingenuous, and solely for his rich brethren (and racist);  but he does manipulate complete idiots very well ( look in the mirror for the type of individual I am referring to)

does he believe for a second that a wall "preventing"  drugs from being carried across the border, would defer or impact at all the over 90% that are smuggeled through crossings, air, sea ports

you sir, are an idiot - and you are welcome as you have completely earned your title!@ - wear it well

Don't blame Hillman. Blame his parents and those around him while growing up. He is delusional.

1157f7db412e87835b24e492931e8f03--police-cops-john-trump.jpg

 

I'm not a trump supporter so stating that i am makes you appear to be the bigger idiots

i don't think anyone in here was calling you a trump supporter, just stupid.

>>> imagine if we bought health care for our citizens. people would not go broke/life savings. its obscene. <<<

There are very few issues more important than healthcare; adequate food, shelter, racial justice, clean water and air... I may be forgetting something, but really, we need to make sure that people have their needs met (including healthcare) before spending money killing people.

The standoff continues with Maduro and Guaido both claiming to be the legitimate president.

Guaido has the backing of the US, Canada, the EU and most of Latin America.

Maduro still controls the military and has the backing of Russia, Cuba, China, Iran, Turkey, Jill Stein, and Roger Waters,

Guaido has invited the international community to send aid shipments to the impoverished country, while Maduro has set up blockades at the border to keep the aid convoys out:

 

wire-9545618-1549603093-75_634x395.jpg

Un flyover aid and supply drops option will stir it up a bit.

More like a Venezuelan slapfight.

Venezuela is the PERFECT example of how the US, as the primary representative of corporate interests in Venezuela, has totally fucked up and irrevocably destroyed the course of humanity throughout Latin America over the last 70 years or so. Truth is, we'll never know whether any of the Latin American socialist experiments were going to work or not, as the field was never level to begin with. The second that oppressed peoples all over the region started rising up against the cruel and tyrannical reign of the oligarchies that controlled (and still do) everything, the US started activating campaigns of economic strangling, political intimidation and military intervention to ensure that anybody claiming to be a socialist or communist was quickly overthrown.

Originally Hugo Chavez WAS actually democratically elected, remember? In 2002 there was a coup d'etat which was openly supported by W only two hours later. Sucks when it didn't work out and W looked kinda like a dummy (easy for him). Since then, things have gotten progressively worse in Venezuela with both sides ratcheting up the stakes. These days, Maduro basically decided to not recognize the entire legal electoral body of Venezuela and created his own full of his supporters AND loaded the Supreme Court with his supporters AND intimidated the opposition AND incarcerated journalists and opposition leaders. So no, I wouldn't say Maduro is a democratically elected president. 

However, the US has been sticking their dick into this messy pudding since forever, so backing Guaidó right now is basically shackling Venezuela to American corporate interests for the next century. So, you know, economic slavery and whatnot. 

Either way, it's all irrelevant. The military is all the way behind Maduro. That doesn't look like it's going to change. So, he's President. It's a hard stalemate.

And yeah Hillman, I advocate for free high-quality public education and healthcare and all those socialist goods. I even believe in relaxed borders and migration policies between countries that maintain healthy ties. And all of that is the direction in which humanity is headed anyways. Most of these factors are realities in large chunks of the world and mostly need to be improved rather than need to be created. And they actually work out pretty well when, you know, you don't have a colossal bully applying pressure via corporate boycotts all the way through to CIA and military intervention to destabilize your democracy. 

But we need cheap produce.

It's awful what the USA has done in Central and South America,.

It would surely be better if the followed the shining moral and ethical examples of Russia or China or any  every other major power or empire that has ever existed on earth.

The action is now centered on Cucuta, Colombia, right across the border from Venezuela.  The US Air Force has been flying in cargo plane loads of humanitarian aid and Lil' Marco was there this weekend to inspect to the progress.   Guaido says he is organizing brigades of volunteers to attempt to bring in the aid convoys this upcoming Saturday.

Richard Branson has also organized a relief concert right in Cucuta for Friday and Saturday featuring the following line up of Latin performers:

Luis Fonsi -Fonseca -Juanes -Nacho -Lele Pons (host & performance) -Alesso (Dj) -Rudy Mancuso -Ricardo Montaner -Mau y Ricky -Danny Ocean -Alejandro Sanz -Anitta -Marko (host)

Don't know any of them, but if anyone is down in Colombia next weekend, might be the show to catch.   Maduro has just announced he will hold a rival concert on the Venezuela side of the border the same day.  That line up has not yet been announced.  

Bachata battle!

Branson's live aid style concert on the Colombia-Venezuela on Friday went off without a hitch, but yesterday's big organized attempt to push in relief convoys was met with force at the border and a bunch of trucks were burned.  Although about 100 of Maduro's military personal defected during the clashes, there was not the massive rebellion by the military some had hoped.

Pence is flying down to Colombia this week to meet with the Guaido and regional leaders to discuss their next move which they say will involve "concrete steps” and “clear actions."  

In the meantime, Lil' Marco (who was tweeting blow by blow descriptions of yesterday's events) just tweeted this image of Gaddafi getting the ole knife up the bunghole treatment.  Its a sick and thinly veiled warning to Maduro loyalists, but considering how Libya turned out, maybe not the best choice of analogies:

Lil Marco Tweet.jpg

Rubio is obviously very worked up over this and is probably pandering to the South Florida ex pat crowd, but hope he doesn't go full Florida Man.  Never go full Florida Man.

Rubio is a bozo.

Javy nailed it on the head. Great post.

And the biggest concern is the oil.  American oil companies want control(back) over the largest reserves on the planet.   Nothing else is the issue except seeing that quasi-socialists fail at all costs so they can show all the morons that socialism does not work.

 

And the rich get richer...

 

 

"It would surely be better if the followed the shining moral and ethical examples of Russia or China or any  every other major power or empire that has ever existed on earth."

That's just silly for a lot of reasons. 1) Russia is geographically a lot farther than the US, making their Latin American presence necessarily smaller.

2) Russia has not had the history of corporate domination that the US has had since always. The corporations (American) are the ones who've done the most damage in Latin America.

3) The only countries in Latin America who claim any kind of Russian affiliation are Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia and I think Nicaragua. So out of 33 Latin American and Caribbean nations, I would say that's not such a big deal statistically. On the other hand, every single one of the other countries has been raped and pillaged by mostly American corporations, with some European ones involved as well.

In Salvador Allende's (Chilean socialist president from 1970 - 1973 when he was overthrown by the American backed, supported and designed coup d'etat) famous speech to the UN in 1972, he claimed that two copper companies (Anaconda and Kennecot) had extracted 50 billion dollars worth of copper from Chile over the course of the past 20 years. If you reduce that number to account for exaggeration down to say 10 billion, and you calculate that at 1970 money (even though it's from 50 onwards) that translates to about 64 billion dollars in today's money. Despite this, something like 80% of the country was illiterate and lived in the most squalid conditions you can possibly imagine. How in the hell anyone can justify the systematic rape and pillage of a country is beyond me, but considering the overwhelming greed of the corporations, they really left no choice but to be nationalized by the governments of the time. 

Chew on that a bit...

Aren't the Chinese trying to get in on the pillaging of Latin America?

Yes indeed, Ken, the Chinese are all up in here. Especially in Argentina, but everywhere now. The Chinese have a different way of doing business, though. They always have. I'm not saying their corporations are better - they're not. But for millennia, the Chinese have done business with people all around their known world without ever really setting up an imperialistic/colonialist endeavour. 

Shit has hit the fan - looks like Maduro's days are numbered.

Here is a video from this morning's clashes in Caracas showing a Maduro armored car running over protestors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDn2-Qr_Lg

Wait for the 40 second mark - brutal.

 

Gotta admire a people who actually have the balls to get out in the streets and say No to a dictatorship.

Amerikans take fucking notice !

Oh wait I forgot, amerikans have been neutered since the early 70's.

After Kent State, students took their bongs and went home, the worthless pieces of hippy shit.

Coming from a guy doing what? 

What now or in 1970 when the winds of change were blowing gale force ?

Actually the movement died at the Ambassador Hotel, I was 9 a bit young to enter the fray.

How bout you ?

The same as you?

There is talk of U.S. troop involvement. 

That is fucked up.

>>>>>There is talk of U.S. troop involvement. 

Oh, I am sure there are CIA goons and Blackwater types all over the place, if not US Special Forces already in country.  The US military has had a presence in neighboring Colombia for decades and that is where most of the shenanigans are being orchestrated.     

Here is an article from a couple weeks ago about how Bogota Colombia is becoming a hotbed for international intrigue as it relates to the slow motion coup that has been unfolding over the past several months:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-16/mercenaries-spies-and...

Unless Guaido can somehow gain traction in getting more senior level generals to defect, the US military will step in at some point with Tomahawk missiles blazing, most likely as part of an international coalition with Colombia and Brazil and at the "invitation" of Mr. Guaido.   War won't last long, but the aftermath could be quite messy. 

  

Well russia backs Maduro and told him to stand his ground.  They supply his military equipment. 

Looks like I am on Russia's side in this one.

What about democracy?