Vaping illnesses

Sorry to hear!!

Yeah I was at sesh's here in NorCal the last couple years with kids with 100's of carts in professional packaging bought online Dank & Supreme (hot dog water) on there tables selling like hotcakes for to short money to be legit. High cost of living out here forces transplants to ship stuff back home to get by. Shitty or inexperienced extractors outside of Cali more likely to blame. Sesh's know your extractors.

Sorry to hear that, Nancy. Do they think his lungs will recover? Best wishes to all.

that's terrible. best wishes to your family  

That's rough, Nancy.  Hope your relative recovers.

That's awful.  What exactly is causing this?    The rapid onset of these vaping related illnesses is different from someone who smoked cigarettes for years and years and ends up with emphysema or lung cancer.  They say it probably has to do with the filler used, but it doesn't seem that everyone who vapes the same batch gets ill.  

I read it is the outsourced cartridges that were made in China.

Bought cheep and shipped over and filled with product here. The problem is they were made with silver solder. On the first few drags the solder heats upo and is ingested.

I use a lot of silver solder and it was always told to us to not breath it in.

I read it is the outsourced cartridges that were made in China.

Bought cheep and shipped over and filled with product here. The problem is they were made with silver solder. On the first few drags the solder heats upo and is ingested.

I use a lot of silver solder and it was always told to us to not breath it in.

I’m following and trying to make heads or tales of all the stories that are coming out.  Don’t believe everything you read but be aware.

The mechanism of the cartridge can be suspect - the cheaper the price the cheaper the product.  Think of it this way - we all know that microwaving plastic will leach particles into the food. Heated metals, especially those that aren't meant to be heated, will leach chemicals out - in this case directly to the lungs.  

To the majority that has no experience making cannabis oil -

in most cases the product is not viscous.  It doesn’t lend itself to filling small containers. To combat that, glycol and other products are added. Artificial terpenes-flavoring-are also added.  Those products were never intended on being vaporized into human lungs. Pure distillate can burn properly in a cart but chances are the younger kids aren’t getting those.  ‘Hot dog water’ is a telltale sign that your cart is bunk. 

Poison is poison BUT we can survive a bit of poison...  The cart poisonings, for the most part, occur with excessive use. Fake or the realest deal - burning a gram cart to the head daily will fuck you up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq0Gnft1FpQ

Sorry to hear that, Nancy.  Hoping for your family on this end.

Sorry to hear that Nancy.

Cripes if you are going to smoke weed or cigarettes, just smoke weed or cigarettes.

healing vibes to your family

Horrific. Nanc my heart goes out to your family at this time.

++Debbie & son++

wow

Wish there was more to say.

Bottom-feeders and counterfeiters, and China, suck.

Nancy, this is terrible.  Im so sorry.  My sister found 5 bunk carts in her 16 year old's backpack last weekend.  Im having the "cool aunt" convo with her over thxgiving and will show her this thread.  

It sux that a big part of this problem is families not wanting to come forward about the cannibis connection out of fear but honestly, I see my fair share of bunk nicotine carts being sold in the corner stores here in Florida....  they also sell ALOT of carts of I dont know what, that I assume is like fake weed....  IDK.  Its all facinating and horrifying at the same time.

#flowerpower

Here's what is puzzling to me:  Even with the worst mixing standards, which believe me is quite possible with some of these cart fillers, by default there would still be concentrated epidemics of lung illness.  Carts are made in batches of 100's to 1000s.  I do not discount, rule anything out, never underestimate some's motivation of profit BUT we are all missing something here. 

Hoping for the best for your family Nancy.

U.S. is focusing on Vitamin E as cause of vaping lung injuries

By MICHELLE FAY CORTEZ

BLOOMBERG 

NOV. 8, 2019

10:23 AM

U.S. health officials are looking closely at vitamin E acetate as a potential cause of the severe lung injuries that have sickened thousands of Americans who have used vaping devices, including more than three dozen who died as a result.

A study of fluid taken from the lungs of 29 patients battling the condition found all of them had signs of vitamin E acetate, according to a report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday.

Vitamin E acetate is a thick and gummy syrup, similar in consistency to honey, that some illegal makers of vaping liquids use to dilute their product in order to reduce the amount of active ingredients they need to add.

“These new findings are significant,” said Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the CDC, in a conference call, declaring the discovery a breakthrough in the investigation. “For the first time we have identified a potential toxin of concern, in biologic samples. These findings provide direct evidence of vitamin E acetate at the primary site of injury.”

Vitamin E acetate is widely used in food and skin-care products, where it is safe, Schuchat said. There is a distinct difference, however, between inhaling something and swallowing it. Previous studies have found that when vitamin E acetate is inhaled, it may affect lung function, she said. New York state officials identified it as a possible culprit in September.

The number of Americans sickened in the outbreak of vaping-related lung injuries has been steadily increasing. As of Nov. 5, there were 2,051 cases reported in 49 states, the District of Columbia and one U.S. territory, the CDC said on Thursday, with 39 confirmed deaths.

Regulators had signaled in recent weeks that the outbreak was likely tied to the use of black-market vaping products containing THC, the pyschoactive ingredient in marijuana, though they hadn’t drawn a direct link to any one product, behavior or ingredient. The CDC has said that in a small percentage of confirmed illnesses, patients had reported using nicotine-only products.

There are hundreds of devices and ingredients at play in the vaping market, and not all are legal, which has made identifying the source of the outbreak much more difficult.

The rash of illnesses has coincided with increasing alarm about use of e-cigarettes and vaping devices by teens. According to the 2019 National Youth Tobacco Survey, about 4.1 million high-school students and 1.2 million middle-school students will have used vaping products at some point this year.

"Breakthrough in CDC vaping illness investigation: Vitamin E acetate and THC may be to blame"

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/11/08/health/vaping-injury-vitamin-e-thc-bn/i...

Nobody is missing anything Jonas. This is the convergence of maximum human greed and decades worth of failed drug policy. Just that now it's found a twist on how to injure and kill otherwise curious or would be cannabis users in an entirely new and graphic manner. 
 

Free the herb
 

What's wrong with just consuming / smoking the plant, again?

Flower forever! 

If I made 1000 contaminated carts and sold them --- at least 100 would be in service within a few days. No one gets sick.  The next week 100 more go in service and 1 person gets sick? 

I get the greed, I get shit carts, I get vitamin E, I get failed drug policy, I get demonizing cannabis...... Still doesn't add up.  

Here's how easy we can throw conspiracy theories around: growers were tired of being under priced and getting beat by the young-ins only wanting carts. SOooooooo....tada!! They contaminated carts!!!!    

Nahhh.. I don't believe that cannabis users are being systematically taken down either....  

Your example is a hypothetical one and makes no sense. Second, "growers" aren't making these carts. Full stop. Different people metabolize poisons at different rates. They also ingest poisons at different rates. Thus there isn't a mathematical formula to know who will get sick smoking on what mystery poison, and when.

The point is this - if nancy 's nephew (or anyone, for that matter)  had legitimate access to cannabis he wouldn't be in the hospital. Nobody would. This is not a conspiracy.

anybody catch the and THC they attached to that headline? ....Riiiight

>> What's wrong with just consuming / smoking the plant, again? <<

Sometimes you don't want to reek. Vapes (legal) are the best invention EVER for family gatherings, curbside at airports, bathrooms during long dinners out....the BEST!

>This is not a conspiracy.

>Just that now it's found a twist on how to injure and kill otherwise curious or would be cannabis users in an entirely new and graphic manner. 

So.... is it a conspiracy or not a conspiracy?   

Right...avoid the Paraquat flavored carts.

Shit Ned, I wish I knew that yesterday.  

Bss -- we're on the same page and agree 100% that full scale legalization will eliminate much of the bullshit.  In my pea sized brain I still think we're are completely missing something. 

>>   In my pea sized brain I still think we're are completely missing something. <<

As mentioned above, the ill aren't admitting the level of THC use, and blurring the truth with tobacco consumption. Both parents and kids are ducking and running.

and Nicotine vapes are taking the fall because of another hysterical media scandal.

That's some of it. And don't think that the guys running the vape shops/gas stations are getting great product either. 

Kids have been od'ing on fentanyl and telling mom, dad and the EMT (Narcon Gods) that they ate a 'laced edibles'....

It's all blurry.        

The notion that the pure poison that is contained in nicotine vapes is 'taking the fall' is funny.

Nicotine vapes have been around over a decade without the hysteria.  Nicotine vapes have helped many quit analog cigs as well.

you should hear the radio ads, here in California.  But hey banging heroin is AOK.

Recreational marijuana is legal but recreational nicotine vaping is not.  California love.

Thinking of you and family Nancy. Hoping for some good news.

Sorry to hear, Nancy, hoping for the best for your family.

Good to hear Nancy.  Good luck.

Inhaling any kind of oil can't be good for you.

Smoke doesn't seem to be as bad - folks have been smokin' shit for thousands of years.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/vitamin-e-acetate-found-in-all-l...

confirmed by cdc to be vitamin e acetate in cannabis carts

cannabis carts without vitamin e or nic products still ok to use

the info on this has been going around for months and it blows my mind that even now, weeks or months later, kids are still picking up these carts and making themselves sick.

this is why we should be teaching high school students how to safely use drugs. replace DARE with a program that teaches about things like properly measuring doses, reagent testing of street drugs, early overdose symptoms, possibly dangerous interactions, etc.

if people are not going to stop using drugs the least we could do is educate them on how to do it safely. aside from full blown fiends and hardcore addicts, most normal people are not willing to risk their life to get high, and make these mistakes out of ignorance, not lack of caring.

if we had a culture of harm reduction in our school instead of a culture of fear, misinformation and taboo surrounding these drugs, perhaps teachers or administrators nationwide could have talked to students about what is happening with the vaping illness, what might be causing it and how to avoid it.

instead, in a situation that perfectly mirrors the argument against abstinence only sex ed, our current system of abstinence only drug education creates a culture where giving the students real info on how to stay safe is seen as irresponsible and encouraging drug use, just like folks who think fact based sex ed is "sexualizing our children". 

we need to start teaching our young people how to use drugs.

hope things go ok for your cousin nancy. another injured veteran of the drug war.

bad news is that people are still vaping and falling seriously ill and dying. just stop. 

its pretty solid advice to stop vaping black market cannabis carts, and maybe all cannabis carts, but as far as nicotine containing vapes are concerned, they are still saving lives, not making people sick. 

>but as far as nicotine containing vapes are concerned, they are still saving lives, not making people sick. 

Oh come on man. You really just typed that?  

yes jonas. nicotine is not the source of smoking related illnesses, its the other compounds in tobacco, especially the compounds produced by combusting it. ecigs and nicotine containing vape products do not contain tobacco, they contain pure nicotine USP, and thus do not produce the same health effects as tobacco products. it is incorrect to refer to ecigs and vapes as tobacco products - they do not contain tobacco. 

there is are currently no reported cases that directly implicate a nicotine containing vape product in these lung conditions at all. there are statistics going around right now citing cases of this vaping illness confirmed to be from thc containing products at 80%-ish. its never indicated what the other 15-20% might be, because its not clear. it could be nicotine products, but there is currently no indication that it is. its just as easily due to black market vape products with this vitamin e acetate that contain other drugs or research chemicals, or it could be that many people are not comfortable disclosing they have used an illegal drug, so they have just reported they were "vaping" without specifying what. this is a pretty common thing with drug statistics, and its also widely believed to also be involved with sexual abuse/rape statistics...the shame/social stigma can dissuade people from reporting these kinds of things to police or healthcare professionals. 

the article nancy posted about contaminated pods does not specify what they were contaminated with, if there are any potential health risks or what those risks might be. maybe more info will come forward in the lawsuit, that would be great. but this is a lawsuit over a tainted batch of a single product from a single manufacturer and does not appear to be related to this vaping illness thing. there have been e coli outbreaks associated with spinach and lettuce many times, that does not make spinach or lettuce dangerous. it just means the industry need proper oversight and regulation, and consumers should always be mindful of trying to buy from quality producers and trustworthy retailers. 

nicotine containing vape products are currently the most effective tool to quit smoking tobacco we have. the success stories are endless. is it 100% healthy to inhale any kind of vapor, particulate or smoke into your lungs? of course not. but currently every indication we have points to vape products being much, much healthier than tobacco, meaning even those who dont use them to quit, and instead just replace cigs with vaping and intend to vape forever, dont have the same risks of horrible disease and early death that tobacco smokers have. its part of a concept called harm reduction, and when applied to drug use it can encompass ecigs, as well as things like drug testing services at raves/festivals, supervised injection sites, needle exchanges, and even many of the services folks like RockMed provide when talking people down from negative psychedelic experiences at dead/jam shows to avoid police/medical intervention in situations that dont require it.

you posted earlier that nicotine containing vape products are "pure poison". i guess in a way thats true, nicotine or tobacco tea can be used as an organic insecticide on your vegetable or flower gardens. do you have any evidence that nicotine containing vape products have been implicated in these vaping illnesses by any credible source, or that they have been implicated in any other serious health issues? what makes you say they are pure poison? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6_MluUnbmE

So, as is often the case, I'm a bit confused.

Are people saying that even what the supposedly reputable legal dispensaries are selling isn't to be trusted?

"Legal" THC vaping has been going on for a long, long time. I have friends who have been vaping daily for years, buying from medicinal dispensaries. Is this horrible problem something new, or has it just been unreported or undiagnosed as a vaping issue?

And if it is a newer issue how come it's happening so often now?

Nice summary, DL.

There is no credible source.  That is the inherent issue here. 

Do you think that inhaling flavor additives are safe? 

the issue is not whether or not it is safe - safety is not a reasonable indication of whether or not a product should be legal or available to the public. alcohol is not safe. cars are not safe. chainsaws are not safe.

we have such a large allowance for things in our society that are unsafe or cause death, but suddenly when it comes to something that changes your neurochemistry, a big scary drug, then that 50's reefer maddness paradigm kicks in and suddenly everything needs to be totally safe and even a small handful of deaths are unacceptable.

here are some statistics on chainsaw related injuries(government sources for these claims are included in the link) - 

- Each year in the US there are over 30,000 gas and electric chainsaw related injuries, some of which are catastrophic.

- 31,000 people were treated in the hospital emergency departments in 2012 for chainsaw injuries.

- The medical costs for these injuries amount to over $350million each year.

http://www.americantreeservicesupply.com/did-you-know

these statistics are currently much worse than any statistics we have concerning nicotine containing vape products. more people are injured each year and taxpayer cost associated with chainsaw injuries is very high.

would you like to start an anti-chainsaw organization with me jonas? if you are worried about public safety this is a much bigger issue than vaping. we could lobby for the removal of chainsaws from stores, or an age limit for purchases. lets make brightly colored chainsaws illegal, since obviously only kids and teens want colorful chainsaws. as we all know adults only want chainsaws with dull or neutral colors.

the issue is that all the evidence we have points to inhaling these flavoring additives being much safer than tobacco. it is a harm reduction principle. 

This is why turtle calls it jonasplaining.

Are you trying to sound like the NRA?  If not the juxtaposition isn't really working.   

We have NO evidence that inhaling flavor additives are safe at all. 

Shit, didn't know I was on anyones radar.  When did he say this? 

lance - the vitamin e causing the illness is mostly in black market carts - but there is some significant crossover between the black and white market ATM. we in the cannabis industry were all criminals just a few years ago. except every rule to be broken, every corporate cannabis conspiracy totally played out, and eventually some significant and publicized federal arrests if we dont legalize in the next few years.

its entirely possible some of those black market carts will end up in legit dispensaries, since almost every member of the cannabis industry, myself included TBH, is totally fine with bending or breaking regulations to make more money. i do it every day, just not with regulations relating to public safety.

however carts produced by legit, respected manufacturers are not currently implicated.

Doctors' Descriptions of Vapers' Lungs Are Terrifying

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x533d/vaping-and-lung-transplants?ut...

Doctors need to drive BMW's and buy McMansion's while Health Insurance companies make investors profits.

Fuck whatever makes people sick the american greed machine needs you in bankruptcy for profit reasons. Get woke medicare for all! Yes taxes go up slightly but no increase when you don't have to pay a healthcare company's Premiums, Coinsurance & Deductible then because you employer doesn't have to help with your premiums they should be able to give you a pay raise with money saved.

great news nanc!

by the way, i overheard 2 doctors-in-training today....they were talking about "can't be for single payer and still have well paid dr.'s..."....

>they should be able to give you a pay raise with money saved.<

right!, they should but won't unless mandated to somehow...

Glad to hear things are good Nancy!! I agree Turts they won't greed is that way. They could pay more now with profit's but they aren't. Also it's the mergers not automation ruining the day for jobs. How many jobs have we Merged Away last 20 years????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? It's a big fucking question that needs to be answered! 

Nancy, so happy to read your update and his. Wonderful news!

Awesome news Nancy!
 

honey cut is the problem surf dead wife

Happy for you and your family Nancy.

This article explains a lot:

https://www.leafly.com/news/health/toxic-vaping-vapi-evali-lung-injury-r...

Excerpt

What made Honey Cut so popular?

Honey Cut took off because it made illicit vape cartridge makers a lot of money. The product fooled consumers into thinking they bought something pure. Honey Cut’s color and thickness closely resemble that of pure THC oil. It’s available online and does not affect the appearance or flavor of THC oil. As such, it fooled consumers performing what’s known as the “bubble test.”

Pure THC extract is a thick amber oil, and traditional THC oil cutting agents thin the oil. In response, customers learned to detect cut oil by flipping over vape cartridges to see how the air bubble moves inside the tank—much like the bubble in a carpenter’s level. A fast-moving bubble means the oil had been thinned with a cutting agent and wouldn’t deliver the high THC potency a consumer desires.

Tocopheryl-acetate defeats the bubble test by cutting THC oil without thinning it. For years, THC oil had been mixed with the common additives propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin, used to allow the oil to flow and contact the vape pen’s heating device. Instead of 10% or 15% propylene glycol cuts, vape cartridge makers could cut THC oil by up to 80%, Honey Cut promised, and consumers would never know.

The chemical created huge profit margins for Honey Cut. Temple could import raw vitamin E acetate for $8.50 to $42.60 a liter (converted from gallons), re-package it, and mark it up to between $1,100 and $1,350 a liter. That’s about a 1,300% markup on every liter.

Even with the import markup, illicit THC vape cartridge fillers who spent $1,000 on a liter of Honey Cut could fool consumers by stretching their supplies of THC oil and pocket an extra $5,000 in profit.

:

Apparently an aspiring actor in LA and his girlfriend made a fortune by "misreading" a patent and marketed a lucrative but toxic cutting agent as safe to inhale. And there was no regulation or mandatory testing required to distribute and sell it. And plenty of bootleggers to wanted to buy it.

From NBC News last night. It's well worth the 3 minutes of your time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDCHb49ei4

...Add pesticide-laced weed and shitty toxic cartridges / pens, and people were inhaling soapy Raid.

I'm kinda glad the vaping industry is taking a hit -- all those disposable pens (legal or illicit) end up in the local landfills -- there is no process or incentive to recycle parts and batteries (partly because they contain illegal drugs, partly because they can't be disassembled easily, partly because there is no market for the used materials).

I once explored the idea of putting up collection bins outside dispensaries for one-use pens, but when I researched what can be done with them afterwards, the only response was, "I guess you can make art out of them."

[Does anyone remember the High Times centerfold from 1976 or 77 of red hash oil?]

Such a shame what is happening. The worst thing is this is all unnecessary. All avoidable. People are so fucking dumb gullible to injest shit they have no idea whats in it, where it came from etc etc.  New fads are usually harmful, remember bag'o glass and johnny switchblade.

My advice - These days with all the dicks out there just looking to make a buck, just stick with the noble weed. And if you didn't grow it or know the grower personally, don't fucking try it.

I'm kinda glad the vaping industry is taking a hit -- all those disposable pens (legal or illicit) end up in the local landfills -- there is no process or incentive to recycle parts and batteries (partly because they contain illegal drugs, partly because they can't be disassembled easily, partly because there is no market for the used materials).

the sad part is we could put cannabis extracts into reusable tanks just like people do for nicotine products and they would be better in every way...those vape bros you see with the big box devices blowing out those enormous clouds...that would work for cannabis also.

you cant really truly get stoned with most canna-vapes in the same way you do with flower or hash, because the hits you take are just so small, you cant get the thc into your brain fast enough. the speed at which peak blood plasma is achieved can have drastic effects on a drugs effects...this is why shooting heroin is so much more powerful than eating pain pills...not because heroin is somehow stronger or more euphoric, but because you shoot it, it comes on quickly and is more euphoric. same goes for crack vs. cocaine. any difference in effects is not due to chemical differences in the drug, they are due to a faster or slower onset of action.

so when you put weed into these larger reusable tanks, you get much bigger hits with much more thc, meaning you can get just as stoned from a vape as you do from smoking hash or flower. bigger hits also mean much more flavor.

carts/vapes could be just as good as hash or flower...but the consumer just cant be bothered to reuse a tank, they want the convenience of something small and disposable. many cannabis companies have tried to introduce reusable, higher quality cannabis vaping products, and customers just dont buy them. they want the disposable china carts. if there was a market for high quality environmentally responsible cannabis vape products, they would be on the market. this is what growers and industry folks want. there just isnt a market.

Techno-weed, another stupid innovation.  Just smoke buds.  It's been field-tested for generations.  If you need to be discrete, get some edibles.  It's not rocket-science.

Very glad to hear the positive update on your nephew, Nancy.  Hope he is feeling stronger every day.

 >>>>>It's been field-tested for generations

For eons!

Techno-weed, another stupid innovation.  Just smoke buds.  It's been field-tested for generations.

the very best carts are pure cannabis. some companies make very good distillate that can be vaped straight up in a specialized cart with no cuts or fillers, or they are thinned with cannabis derived terpenes...basically the same thing as the bottles of essential oils you would buy for a diffuser, but made with cannabis. distillate is made by doing a simple extraction with ethanol, and then puting it through a process called fractional distillation where the thc is seperated from the other components, turned to vapor by a very precise high tech heating mantle, and then condensed into pure thc distillate. there is nothing added and there is no reasonable reason to think the effects would be any different than standard flower.

the other product is colloquially known as "terp carts". you take a very high quality BHO live resin, and using pressure, heat and time, you can cause the thc-a to crystalize, and when the thc-a precipitates out of the solution, whats left behind is extremely high in terpenes, so its runny enough to put in a cart straight up. there is a small amount of thc-a left in the terp fraction, as well as all the thc that was not able to crystalize, so with both factors considered most terpene fractions coming from live resin clock in at around 40% thc.

both of these products do not contain any kind of additives and shouldnt cause any more concern than smoking flower, and on top of that they do not contain toxic byproducts of pyrolysis like smoked flowers do.

this thread is like a living embodiment of the "ok boomer" meme, the next iteration of reefer madness. its like all we need is a little xenophobia and tomorrow folks will be posting about how candy flavored vapes are making black guys rape white women.

I made an ounce of bubble hash, and scored one of those concentrate pens. I guess aim all set.

Thank you, Daylight, for sharing this technical information. Knowledge is key.

would just like to add the last sentance of my last post does not apply to nanc in any way. all my best wishes are with her and i appreciate being able to hear a personal experience about this issue. the besty way to honor those who have been hurt by drugs is to advocate for a fact and science based approach to drug use and drug policy.

Fuck your health, it's all about the vote, and young teens don't vote.

Trump backing off banning vaping flavors popular with teens
https://apnews.com/4e13a836510d4bcfb70ef0b5d1eb7afd

Popular with teens?  So is booze, and weed and guess what you need to provide ID to buy all.

In European countries that don’t get spun out by fake media frenzies, government health officials encourage nicotine vaping over cigarettes.

You now have to be 21 to buy cigarettes and e-cigarettes, all tobacco products in New York. They just raised it from 18.

double

Nancy -  Just trying to get real data as I truly want to understand what's happening out there:  I'm going to guess that at least one of your 2nd cousins friends bought the same product & were hospitalized? Are they recuperating too?

So none of your 2nd cousins friends got sick?  It's an honest question.  

There's no conspiracy theory. I actually give a shit. 

I wish your Facebook friend only the best.      

>>>what exactly is fake? are you seriously denying that the black market carts  and even some tainted legal carts are making people seriously ill?! 

What is being blurred is what the media is spinning.  Nobody is dying from nicotine vapes.  People are dying from black market THC vapes.  Yet the media and the CDC are blurring these THC vape deaths with flavored nicotine vapes.  Nobody is banning THC vapes, yet communities all over are banning nicotine vapes and small business owners are going out of business.  Nicotine vapes, which is a more legit industry, than your beloved marijuana industry, is taking the brunt of this media frenzy.

Is calling my statement trump like supposed to be an insult?

When the media first came after “vaping” deaths there was no talk about THC vapes.  The went full tilt on nicotine flavored vapes and saving the children.  After it was found that legal over the counter nicotine vapes were not causing the “epidemic” the media did not take the pressure of the legal nicotine vapes yet just blurred thc vapes into the mix.  

Pretty much.

Here’s what’s happening in my city.  The irony coming from the my body my choice side of the aisle.

fake media frenzy created this.  

https://lbpost.com/news/vaping-ban-tobacco-flavored-long-beach

^^ very well put, totally agree

nanc, it seems like there might be a misunderstanding going on here - i thought it looked like racket saying "fake media frenzy" was in reference to the link ras posted referencing banning ecig flavors, not the situation with THC carts

Thanks daylight, exactly.  The media is not accurately reporting that THC vapes are causing this epidemic, and Nancy I have been questioning mainstream media far longer than trump has been in office.

Personally, I've been vaping high quality c02 extracted thc oil for over a year now, and feel way better than when I puffed weed. I'm not saying vaping thc oil is perfectly healthy, but throat and lungs feel way better, plus more energy - and this stuff is so potent I only need a few hits a day to stay buzzed. Ironically, I buy my carts under the table at a vape store that sells the nasty tobacco juice.

Another growing trend in some circles is 'The Sublimator' - which promotes itself as 'beyond vaping'. It 'atomizes' the vapor, which makes it even finer and easier to absorb. I've tried it and liked it, but it's not practical outside of the house. It also takes a while to heat up, which can be annoying. Realy brings out the taste, though.

https://www.vaporplants.com/sublimator-review-desktop-vaporizer-pros-and...

Wow that things crazy. 
 

still prefer flower power to all else. Simple man...

Nancy I hope your family continues to heal, you guys are in my thoughts.

I stopped smoking, puffing, vaping, dabbing, whatever. It took a while to recenter, but once I did, my life has improved significantly. I would never go back, always forward, and glad to have that behind me. If this is all you know it is very hard to see a reality without it, after 34 years of daily use this was the case for me.  Grateful, and as the warf rat sticker goes, "You don't need dope to dance!".

Go cousin!
 

Vaping is just as bad or worse than cigs.

As for the thc/disstellate carts, you should know your extractors.  The price has bottomed out on distillate cuz there is tons available.  It's what the idiots are cutting it with that is making folks sick.  I personally can't stand cartridges anymore.  They create so much trash and don't get me high most of the time and run out quickly.  I'll stick to live resin or live resin.  Much tastier and much more potent.  Distellate is good for making edibles.

Nancy, has he said what exactly he was vaping?

glad to hear he's doing better nancy

Vaping is just as bad or worse than cigs.

aside from the comparatively small amount of cases of this recent "vaping illness" deal, which seems to have a specific culprit, vitamin e, not vaping in general, there is absolutely no evidence that even begins to come close to supporting that statement, rob. anecdotal, peer reviewed or otherwise.

as nancy said, in addition to the whole vitamin e thing, there are other risks, like pesticides, which can be in much higher concentrations than flower due to being concentrated by the extraction process, or dangerous metals being used in carts/vaping devices, but there are similar, and potentially greater risks we face every day in our industrial food system. in the pharmaceutical industry. in alternative medicine...basically anything we take into our bodies. things like metals or vitamin e do not show that vaping is dangerous, it shows that vitamin e and heavy metals in your lungs are dangerous and these products need to be more tightly regulated.

almost all evidence still points to the idea that vaping nicotene in a situation with no contaminants present, is obviously not good for your lungs, but is far, far safer than smoking tobacco and is a viable harm reduction technique for those who cant seem to shake the addiction.

Daylight has a grip on what's what. Thx for sharing that intelligent info.

nanc, there is no research cited whatsoever in that link. that link is just the anecdotal story of a kid with this illness who admitted to vaping cannabis products.

the latest research is still indicating that vitamin e acetate containing THC vape products are the culprit.

Laboratory data show that vitamin E acetate, an additive in some THC-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, products, is closely associated with EVALI.

A recent studyexternal icon analyzed samples from 51 EVALI cases from 16 states and a comparison group of samples from 99 healthy people for vitamin E acetate, plant oils, medium chain triglyceride (MCT) oil, coconut oil, petroleum distillates, and diluent terpenes.

Vitamin E acetate was identified in bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) fluid samples (fluid samples collected from the lungs) from 48 of the 51 EVALI patients, but not in the BAL fluid from the healthy comparison group.

No other toxicants were found in BAL fluid from either group, except for coconut oil and limonene (1 EVALI patient each).

This study built upon a previously released CDC report, using a large number of BAL fluid samples from EVALI patients, and added healthy controls, and yielded the same finding.

These findings complement the ongoing work of FDAexternal icon and some state public health laboratories to characterize e-liquid exposures and inform the ongoing multistate outbreak.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-d...

^latest, most current info from CDC as of this posting, updated dec 20, 2019^

note that even in cases where vitamin E/thc products cannot be confirmed, that does not mean a nicotine containing product or any other vape product not contaminated with vitamin E is confirmed as the culprit, it means that they simply were not able to confirm the presence of vitamin E in those cases...that does not mean it wasnt there.

there is also not a single confirmed case of a nicotine containing product causing these issues or containing vitamin E, nor is there a single confirmed case of anything other than vitamin E causing the vaping illness.

please point me in the direction of this latest research.

Nancy always the sweetest cunt in the room.

nanc, it sounds like you are confusing "vaping illness", or known by the newer term EVALI, with diseases or illnesses in general that could result from smoking or vaping.

Back up: What causes EVALI, exactly?

While experts know that e-cigarettes and vaping products are involved, they’re not exactly sure what it is about those products that’s causing the lung illness. The CDC did note that more than 80 percent of cases of EVALI involved products with THC (the chemical responsible for most of marijuana’s psychological effects). As a result, officials are looking into thickeners and additives that are found in black market THC cartridges.

Some pathology reports have also shown that vaping causes fat to accumulate in the lungs, and that triggers an inflammatory response that makes it hard to breathe, says Osita Onugha, MD, a thoracic surgeon and director of thoracic surgery research and surgical innovation lab at John Wayne Cancer Institute at Providence Saint John’s Health Center in Santa Monica, Calif.

 

Is EVALI different from smoking-related illnesses?

While cigarette smoking can take years to cause illnesses and symptoms, EVALI moves fast, says Dr. Onugha. “People can die acutely,” he says.

Other than that, it’s hard to tell. “Since not much is known about the cause of EVALI right now, it’s unclear if there may be any overlap with smoking-related injuries or whether this is a completely different phenomenon,” says Joanna Tsai, MD, a pulmonologist at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center. “The only difference is that many of these individuals exclusively used vaping products and were not also smoking.”

https://www.prevention.com/health/health-conditions/a29487414/evali-vapi...

the links you have provided obviously show that vaping is not safe. of course. inhaling any kind of smoke or vapor is not good for you. most cannabis users only get a pass on lung issues because of how infrequently they smoke compared to tobacco smokers. 

but the specific illness that effected your family member is a totally different thing, as described in the link i posted above. it seems like you are responding to my post as if i am trying to excuse nicotine vapes, or properly regulated and tested cannabis vapes, from any culpability in any kind of vaping related lung illness. this is not the case, im sorry if i was unclear. i have been, through this whole thread, only referring to the specific "vaping illness" now known as EVALI, which seems to be what effected your family member.

COPD, lung cancer, asthsma, or heart disease is not what people are talking about when they refer to "vaping illness" or EVALI.  

yes, the links you provided are good sources that clearly show that vaping in general, is not good for your lungs and can lead to chronic illness with repeated use. my point has never been that there are no risks to vaping or vaping does not have the potential to cause some kind of illness. the point has been that the specific illness known as EVALI so far has only been shown to come from black market thc carts, and in no way are nicotine vapes implicated in the illness that effected your family member. they do however, as you pointed out, have the potential to cause other chronic illness with repeated use.

this could be a "we are both right" scenario...the links you posted are all solid info and vaping does have the potential to cause chronic lung illness, but there is also no evidence whatsoever that points to anything besides vitamin e containing thc carts being the culprit for EVALI.

You want to sell your wares, I get it.

i really dont want to sell my wares in this case actually. i think thc vape carts are a pale imitation of the flavor and high that comes from flower. i dont use cannabis vape products at all and if it were up to me, not a single gram of the flower i grow would go to fill those stupid things. but im just a gardener, so its not up to me. 

But making claims that vaping ecigs or ‘clean’  THC carts is perfectly safe is, IMO irresponsible.

this is true even for cannabis flower. smoking it at all is not perfectly safe. the benchmark is; "is it as safe as smoking cannabis flower?" and in the vast majority of cases you are correct here.

however! our farm had some fresh frozen flower made into carts using a method where the pure terpenes/essential oils are pulled first, then the flower is extracted for thc distillate. the pure terpenes extracted from the flower is used as the thinning agent. the thinning agents are the non cannabis ingredients that allow distillate to go thru a vape pen. the vitamin E acetate at the center of this debate is a thinning agent.

so there is a way to extract terpenes from the cannabis before the thc, and those terpenes can be used as the thinning agent, meaning the only thing in that vape cart is flowers that i grew organically. this product actually took 1st place vape cart in the emerald cup a few weeks back, and as stoked as i was to be recognized in some way for dedicating my life to growing tasty weed, it was also kind of a bummer that none of my flower placed, since i cant stand those stupid carts and have no desire to even try the cup winning product itself.

Congrats Daylight.

daylight with the win, yet again.

Calm, thoughtful, rational & thorough about a very serious issue.

Very un-zone like.

thanks dflo! are you associated with monterey kush company in some way? i feel like ive heard the name here before, havea vague feeling it might have been in reference to you but idk.

our booth was just a few booths away but i didnt remember hearing the company name on the zone till after the cup was over.

The Bureau of Cannabis Control in December seized more than 10,000 vape cartridges during a series of raids on illicit marijuana retailers in the Los Angeles last December, one of several dozen raids that the bureau conducted in 2019.

The California Department of Public Health then tested the products and found that some of them were cut with undisclosed additives, such as vitamin E, vitamin E acetate, propylene glycol (PG), polyethylene glycol (PEG) and medium chain triglycerides (MCT). Some samples were as much as 30 percent additive.

The illegal retailers also mislabeled the THC content of nearly all the products seized, according to the bureau.

In examples given by the bureau, one cartridge labeled as 80-85 percent THC actually tested for 33 percent THC, while another cartridge labeled 90.66 percent THC actually contained just 40 percent THC.

“Some vape products seized from the unlicensed stores contained as little as 18 percent THC,” according to a bureau release.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/california-weed/article239683648....