Things zoners like but you dont

Forums:

In no particular order: 

Bill Walton 

Rush

Railroad Earth 

Jean shorts 

Tie dyes 

Oakley sunglasses 

Goatees 

Eyes of the World

Warren's voice singing Jerry ballads 

Subarus 

 

 

 

moral equivalence

...eyes-of-the-8xn9fp.jpg

Layla

The Eagles

 

Ponytails

Rainbows

Fleece Vests

 

 

Trolling...

Toilet_Paper_Troll.jpg

troll_internet.jpg

I don't like to talk about myself but the banned contingent can't talk about anything but me. 

I'm a fucking superstar. Thanks, losers. 

>I'm a fucking superstar. Thanks, losers. 

 

It's all downhill from here.

Joan Osborn

JK

Nice thread, JR.

 

I'll add the modern day version of Mountains of the Moon.

Same for Cumberland Blues. 

 

 

warren

Ross mf James

Warren

Joan

Almost all other jambands. Just can't dig 'em.

Sunglasses

Crappin' in holes at parties

Bannings

Surfing

Creepin' on Phil and Phil's family at TXR.

Some of Phil's lineups

GS WARRIORS

And a ton more....Haha!

 

Jr, in your op are you , a "zoners" or "you"?

 

Not sure. You do not clarify in the header.

Haha, Lyn

>> Railroad Earth 

I was with you on this until Sunday night at this year's Strings and Sol. They blew me away!

Shoot me your email and I'll dropbox the sbd to you.

Prince

Another vote for Joan Osborne. 

zoner demographics, lol

The Dave Nelson Band

(Ducks and runs)

Warren Haynes 

Ryan Adams

Marco Benevento (the 1st two guys I just don't like, Marco Fuckin sux, barf)

Testosterone treatment plans

Beard accessories

Frisbee golf

I'm not so hung up or melty about what other Zoners like or don't like, but please carry on with your love fest as it is interesting to see what upsets different people.

Why would not liking something somebody else likes be upsetting, Six?

Did you really just ask that? And you asked it ON the Zone too? Wow!

Hat Pins!

People who post all day long, everyday, and dont ever really say anything. Blah blah blah

 

>>>>Did you really just ask that? 

I sure did. Answer the question, Six.

Look inside yourself for the answer, Mark.

Govt Mule (OK some of their covers are decent....  I'm definitely a Warren fan, as long as he's Mule-free)

Railroad Earth (upper-chakra centric, but has no bottom and thus annoyingly flighty & unstable sounding)

Phish (I'm sure they are very nice people & all that business; Trey + Phil is just fine btw)

 

Probably other things too, but I'm trying to be in a more positive space right now. Not the ideal time for me to think of stuff I don't like.

 

cool

 

 

 

Dabs

 

Men advising other men about fashion.  So twee.

Where should men get their style advice from? Women?

That's generally a terrible idea.

>>Where should men get their style advice from? 

 

Men should NOT be fashionable it's about function, you'll learn as you get older

Men should dress like men. That means having a command of the basics (fit, color, texture), and not looking like a slob.

Men should figure it out on their own.  

 

Checking out fashion magazines is fine, but it's dainty prattle on a hippie message board.  Take that fluff to instagram or the Gaga board.

who determines these Basics you speak of? I say FU fashion I wear what's comfortable and fuctions for me at that time

Men who dress poorly always say they're "comfortable". Fact.

It has been said that those with no substance have to rely on style to be relevant.

 

You tell 'em, Martha.

Those fashions mags are designed only sell you more shit that you probably don't need. 

Hush, Herbal Dave.

You've got a long way to go before you can trade paint with me.

That's perfect Mark as I really don't give a fuck what you and your hipster buddies think and would never claim to be fashionable, but I am always comfortable and have on what I like.

St. Martha.

That one might stick. lol

AND I AM A FAN OF JORTS

and Birks with socks and tie dye

Fashion and style are very different things.

I understand this concept is elusive for some.

>>I understand this concept is elusive for some.

 

St Martha, Most of us don't give a shit, it's really that simple, that's probably hard for a hipster to grasp as well

St. Martha (The Lioness)

 

gaining traction here.

Six is getting excited. That's good to see. I've been worried his t had finally flatlined completely.

Obviously, Jklowan. Nobody who cares even a little proclaims their love of jorts in all caps.

my caps button got stuck, and I didn't care about that either

Jorts are what's wrong with America. Fact.

Ah yes. The ol' sticky caps button.

TRY SWAPPING OUT YOUR JORTS FOR SOME CHINOS AND DRESS LIKE A GODDANN GROWN ASS MAN.

I hate it when that happens.

jorts are a problem, but I think wifebeater tees are what's wrong with America

I must agree with St. Martha.

Jorts are not for me either.

Don't front, Six. You've worn JORTS, and you know it.

what makes jorts the best and most functional is to pair with a fanny pack

I have yet to find a cargo jort so the fanny pack becomes a must

In many ways, the fanny pack is really just an extension of the jort pocket. It's definitely highly functional.

and for the record any style or fashion that you think you have, stepping out of a Subaru cancels it out, might as well put on some jorts and enjoy your fail

I upgraded to a CX9 so I have more room for the baby.

Where does that leave me?

ahhh a glorified mini-van perfect fit for the jorts (ZOOM ZOOM), sounds like your long overdue, why fight it

What you seek can be found at JCPennys:

 

index_4.jpg

Yeah it's like driving a boat on land, Jklowan.

Went with the clubbed baby seal interior to compliment the gas mileage too. Thing is nice.

I need bigger side pockets , where will I fit all my drug band paraphernalia in those tiny pockets

Constant "I'm cooler than you" trolling

I believe they make cargo shorts for that purpose.

St Martha I know I recently bought my own land yacth

>>>>>Constant "I'm cooler than you" trolling

 

Different doesn't equal cooler.

 

If some people feel less cool when they read a thread like this, that's on them.

> Men should dress like men. That means having a command of the basics (fit, color, texture), and not looking like a slob

That's a really narrow (and archaic) definition of masculinity, but I'll play along. What are some other qualities that you consider to be manly, Mark?

Alcohol
Coffee
Movies
Prince
Dogs
Hoodies
Team sports
TV sitcoms and dramas

Leave this fun thread alone, MikeE.

Thanks.

St. Martha, will you vote for Trump again next time?

>>>What are some other qualities that you consider to be manly, Mark?

 

Let's start with the need for single syllable first names for men.

 

Vegas  odds for the moniker "St. Martha" sticking at 8:1

Jer

Tucked t-shirt into jeans

White high tops

Any concert shirt worn in public

 

looks like my first viva hundo thread. thanks folks, this is kind of exciting for me. 

 

>>>St. Martha, will you vote for Trump again next time?

 

Barking up the wrong tree there, Sixy. I voted for #Hilcat, buddy. Colorado was a blue state.

Mark, your assimilation into DougCo will be slow.

Expect a Trump/Pence yard sign to just appear in your lawn by mid-summer.

st. martha?

why is it so hard for the over 50 crowd to do the nickname thing, maybe T-levels effect cognition and or creativity? 

this is the first time i've brought it up but i mean god you guys if that's the best you can do. 

 

 

wearing wool instead of 100% cotton

>>>Men advising other men about fashion.  So twee.

100% true

Real men listen to advice from Women instead of Men, well unless you care more about what men care about your look than women.

Is Herbal Dave fka Java Dave?

Are gay men real men? 

javaless dave fog.  he quit the caffeine. 

Good point Slacker, advice from men would be just as important in that case for them.

JR, this is a wonderful thread, good work.

>>>Mark, your assimilation into DougCo will be slow.

We're actually in ArapahoeCO, Ned.

Pretty substantial Sprouts/Whole Foods footprint down here. I think we're safe. For now.

 

>>>>why is it so hard for the over 50 crowd to do the nickname thing

 

They literally just can't do it.

It's like trying to teach a monkey how to use the internet. Sure, they can bang on the keyboard and get excited; maybe even throw some poop. But in terms of mastering the finer points, it's a lost cause.

So you voted for the loser, St. Martha? Very unfortunate. Really sad.

Also, I'd like to add that with the notable exception of Tom Ford, gay men aren't generally male style icons.

I know it's hard for certain poorly attired zoners to accept the fact that dressing like total slobs makes them less of a man; and that it probably gives them comfort to associate good style with their homophobic notions; but the fact remains that real men dress appropriately, and demonstrate a command of personal style. That's just the way it is.

Fake news is now all over the Zone. All over the Zone. I thought the last refuge was here. It's not fair! Sad.

I don't think anybody really knows what you're even talking about anymore, Six.

The senility is really becoming pronounced. 

My people tell me that your ratings are very much in decline, St. Martha. You we're a big star with much potential but you have apparently blown that. Very sad.

Are you reading an old copy of TV Guide right now, Six?

You know Becker was cancelled in '04, right?

>>>gay men aren't generally male style icons.

This shows you really are a poser with no clue.

 

Perhaps once you reach 50 you will understand just because you overdress on a daily basis and have yourself convinced you look fabulous this does not make you more or less attractive than someone wearing tie dye and sweats.

 

Also St Martha, you should be honest and tell Sixer how much you missed him in the other thread this week.

He missed me? Of course he did. My electoral college victory was the best. He knows this. Big announcement from St. Martha coming soon!

>>>This shows you really are a poser with no clue.

 

How so?

 

>>>Perhaps once you reach 50 you will understand just because you overdress on a daily basis

 

I'm never overdressed.

 

>>>this does not make you more or less attractive than someone wearing tie dye and sweats

 

That is objectively incorrect.

Yes he missed you. Lets see if he mans up and admits it.

 

 

the dreaded triple cut and paste reply, LOL 

nice edit St. Martha,  hilarious

There's nothing dreaded about a cut and paste reply, Fog.

You're thinking of the dreaded triple post. I understand the internet is confusing for you.

>>>Perhaps once you reach 50 you will understand just because you overdress on a daily basis and have yourself convinced you look fabulous

 

Every time I've met up with Mark he was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Yet, still looked, shall I say, fabulous.

Wrong, the dreaded triple cut and paste is a clear sign a melty is near, better catch yourself. Perhaps a nice fresh air walk would help you.

I see nothing about missing me in his remarks. Very unfortunate.

 

My t shirts are tailored by a Cambodian seamstress.

Things some Zoners like but I don't:

Tofu- nasty

IPA's- too bitter

Whiskey- tastes bad

Moe.- just gross

Michael Franti- major dork

Cocaine- don't like how people act on it

BBQ sauce- gross

WSP- thumbs down all the way

Robert Randolph- one trick pony

Ron Penque- crappy voice and seems like a total dick

Disco Stu's dog posts- harmless, but just why? Seriously.

Do you have any proof of this Ned, like a pic, lies just seem to follow St Martha around. The better question is if he does frequently wear jeans and t shirt why has he never shared that and why does he talk down about people dressing casual?  I suspected the grande attire bs was all a big poser scheme.

 

I got nothing but memories of good banter, friendship and a partially compromised liver.

>>>I suspected the grande attire bs was all a big poser scheme.

 

You don't think that buttoned up SOB has been trolling the dogshit outta you, do you?

Top of Page Bottom of Page Permalink 

Manky O'neill

 Foghorn on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 – 08:45 am

you're

 

speaking of monkey shit, this whole thread is a steaming pile of monkey shit, sure you can all pile on gravy and say he stinks the most, its all still a steamy pile that everyone is wallowing around in like pigs..

oink oink

I believe you hurt Sixers feelings by not admitting you missed him, now he's gone.

>>>>>Real men listen to advice from Women instead of Men, well unless you care more about what men care about your look than women.

 

Fog, did you get your advice on your Tulsa meetup outfit from Roseanne Barr?

Lol

Sir Timmy as the White Knight saves St. Martha, how touching and gallant.

 

Good one Timmy.

another thread that turns into a circle jerk.

shocking

Nobody needs saving in a thread, Fog.

Most zoners don't have the weird dynamic with their friends that you and G'stain do. 

>>>>another thread that turns into a circle jerk.

 

It's the F06 signature move

>>>It's the F06 signature move

says one of the usual circling jerks

Double breasted tyvek suit, anyone?

Foggy is very divisive.

Hey Fog....it's warm and dry in here. Won't you join us?

Here...have a cookie.

 

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

Ned, thanks so much for the cookie. You're a good dude and i won't forget your kind gesture.

Do you ever wonder why this never works out for you, Fog?

david nelson band

govt mule

You're welcome, Fog.

Please remove your shoes/slippers. Please, and thanks.

i am beach culture casual. it is a distinct stylistic category separate from eastern us men's lack of caring about their attire.

Raiders, Cowboys

Yankees

Sushi, Tofu

RRE, Moe

Hard Alcohol

Man Buns

trumpsters

hipster.jpg

 

 

 

hopefully more women will join after reading my thread. 

Ned, can you please offer Mark a cookie.

>>>Why would not liking something somebody else likes be upsetting, Six?

 

I had the same question, as I'm sure many did who read that.

 

It's weird to tell us we are getting melty when there was absolutely none of that anywhere in this thread (haven't read past this post).

 

You must read us in some strange ways, Six if you honestly thought people were angry when commenting in this one.

>> i am beach culture casual

 

That's exactly what I mean by "personal style".

Hopefully nobody confuses that with wearing oversized tie dye and sweatpants to dinner. Different thing.

 

Tie is too wide for the lapel of that jacket, Wino. 

 

Coastal resident style

It's the F06

Timmy. You said you we're going to stop using the 6 in Fog here.

You have failed to follow through again. Very sad.

 

I read all those 'very sad' comments in Trump's voice.

Impossible not to. 

I actually wondered if Six might be doing that intentionally, Felina.

He'll definitely claim that he has been, now that I mentioned it. 

>>>>Very sad.

 

I know.  Pathetic even.

Felina reads things so literally. Always very dour. The glass is continuously half full. So unfair!

I read all those 'very sad' comments in Trump's voice.

 

Duh.

See? 

There it is.

I'm not so hung up or melty about what other Zoners like or don't like, but please carry on with your love fest as it is interesting to see what upsets different people.

 

Was I reading that too literally when you weren't being serious?

Okay...I'll take your word for it.  My bad.

 

 

Herbal Dave takes his style advice from Jane Goodall.

Trolling ammunition thread! No thanks!

>>See? 

>>There it is.

 

Go back and read every post I made in this thread after I asked if you were going to vote for Trump again and tell me you didn't realize I was mimicking Trump.

 

I will do no such thing, Six.

I'm totally cool with you pretending to be Donald Trump. It's weird, but I've seen weirder.

It is weird Six.

Like Mark said, not fucking a corpse weird, just strange.

In any event, I hope you are doing well and I'm reading you wrong thinking you are the one who's angry.

Angry ain't allowed in this place.

 

 

 

 

The flailing, St. Martha. You are the biggest fake news. Complete disappointment.

 

I will try to step it up to fucking a corpse weird, Felina, but without Nick here, that will be tough.

 

Sixy seems to suffer from a tremendous amount of inner tension, doesn't he?

I've always suspected he's prone to fits of road rage. 

BMW drivers

WHAT A Stupid Thread.

Careful, PLF. 

You're in Sixy's lane.

The topic of the thread is fine and should have been pretty interesting. But, it turned into an argument over men's outfits and fashion sense, or lack thereof. The Zoners in this argument have hated one another for years. That's what is stupid to me- the hate for one another. 

afternoon folks. just got back from a walk with my super hot girlfriend down to the beach. 

>>>The Zoners in this argument have hated one another for years

 

The zoners in this argument most definitely do not hate each other.

Professional wrestling only looks real to the people in the stands. That's how it works.

In fairness though, let's get back on topic.

 

JORTS

 

I don't know about that. It definitely appears there is one angry man in that banter.

I'm seeing it like this- since it's definitely not appropriate to hurl the insults of long ago calling each other fags, homos, etc., the men here are trying to get at one another insulting one another's manhood in ways, means, and words that, for an outsider to the conversation, reads at a bad attempt at humor. 

The low t thing, jeans shorts, sweats, etc., no offense, but how about some new material? 

No hate? Okay, so is it one of those deals if one of this "loving" group should pass away, we would read from one of you about what a great guy he was and all the joking that took place?

I say this because it's painfully obvious the older men on this site and the PZ before do not take kindly to these insults. 

If 6'r passed I would be shocked for a few hours, send vibes and then start another kick ass thread like this one. 

I think it would be cool to put Six's body in a boat, fill it with weed, light it on fire, and read aloud an ancient Norse rite of passage.

Like a stoner Viking.

>>>>I say this because it's painfully obvious the older men on this site and the PZ before do not take kindly to these insults. 

You were on that old site? 

Lol, St. Mark. I bet he'd appreicate that.

I come from the land of the ice and snow. With the midnight sun, and the Hot Springs flow…

 

Wilco

Smilies

Groupthink

My Morning Jacket

Nice thread 

I am a zoner and I do love Prince. 

St. Mark is also spot on about zoners being slobs at times and how we all should be more thoughtful about our appearance. 

Not wrong...

Sports

Politics

Nicknames

Yet I've posted about all three. Go figure. smiley

>>>I bet he'd appreciate that

I know he would, EB Fox. Obviously I hope that day doesn't come anytime soon. 

This is the most Wonderful Gay Pride thread I've yet witnessed here.

The Universe smiles, and sprinkles glitter at all you all.

Out of that repressive closet, one baby step at a time. 

Just be Proud, knowing that it's OK to be happy who(m)ever you are.

 

>>Where should men get their style advice from? Women?<<

Only if they like members of the opposite sex,  otherwise they get their style advice here.

lol

A real man doesn't ask a woman's opinion of his attire.

He simply dresses well, and humbly enjoys the results.

Thanks, JR. That's honestly more than I would do if you passed.

The Q

Jimmy Herrings

Chimenti

Phish

Buncha pups wrasslin' 'n'  gnawin' on each other. 

Eyes of the World, JR? 

Lest we forget that you're really a ratdoggie. 

>>Only if they like members of the opposite sex,  otherwise they get their style advice here.

more truth

 

There was a ton of jealousy over that famous Tulsa meeting and some fun was poked at my weekend attire, which was a pair of mesh William and Mary warm up shorts, a vintage Ralph Lauren crab shirt and a pair of Minnetonka moccasins, it really was and is all in good fun, a few in here have thrown around dresses like a  slob when addressing me which is funny because i don't dress like a slob. Thats the true story.

Now back to this hating, no way does anyone hate each other here, well i guess i can only speak for myself.

 

On a side note i'd say this fabulous thread jr started has crept him closer to being relevant.

 

 

I have no skin in the game, but let me throw this out there: clothes do not make the man. 

Anyone can look good in tailored clothes, but some men can look good in just about anything.

How's your crew BrianK?

laugh

 

let me throw this out there: clothes do not make the man. 

 

I'll throw this out there - I really don't care that anyone here looks "good" or not.

Since this is a message board and I do not see many of you on any regular basis - I just pay attention to the character everyone displays in their interactions with others and note who is kind and who isn't.

What have you noted about Fog?

He's very nice to the people who are kind to him.

Also - I have noted he does not spell his handle with a 6.

 

I see you used a g this time. Thank you for the follow-through. It has been...noted.

IM BACK TO PRAISE THE JORTS

durable, comfortable and can be made by yourself with just a pair of sissors, what more needs to be said really

they also look great with tie dye shirts and birks, did I say comfortable yet

homepage.jpg...

I only use Fo6 when referring to both of you, or something you both do.

It has been noted and I think we discussed it already.

I think you are aware of my thoughts on the subject.

And while I would like to believe you - I have seen you use Fo6 in directly replying to just Fog in threads that I have not posted in.

More lies from the F06 camp

Fake News! Very sad.

The paradigm shifted at Trump's press conference yesterday. Very fake news is the new standard.

Jklowan's jorts work has been impressive in this thread.

>>>my weekend attire, which was a pair of mesh William and Mary warm up shorts, a vintage Ralph Lauren crab shirt and a pair of Minnetonka moccasins

 

Aka "Foccasins".

bwjorts.jpg

What the hell is wrong with jorts?

exactly Brian, finally someone with good sense joins in

I don't usually spit when I have em one but might consider adding that to the repertoire...

>>>>>>I don't usually spit

 

How do you like your eggs?  \insertsmiley

LOL timmy you bastard I spit my coffee up

awesome!  I was totally hoping for a coffee spit-take on the spit joke

my work here is done

>>What the hell is wrong with jorts?

For clarity: Cut-off jeans are not jorts.

Jorts are hemmed, and a fashion disaster.

Pretty sure that roll up and roll down jorts pic is an example of california coast style.

Ned are you sure jorts are not cut off jeans.. ?

Custom shorts are great. If my jeans rip at the knee, I'm gonna cut them two inches above the knee. 

I am certain, Foog.

Cut-offs look cool. Jorts do not. This is an opinion , of course.

 

phamily band

I'm not so sure cut off jeans are not jorts. We need an expert.

I'm sure someone at the Florida Trump rally could clear this up for us.

Cut offs are distinctive from JORTS.

Nedb is correct.

so to pretty much sum up this thread....myself and mark are the only non fashion disasters on the zone. 

Cut offs on dudes can be cool unless they don't have a measurable inseam. 

This thread has been a return to form for you, JR.

Eclipsing 200 as we roll into Friday afternoon. Solid. 

Nick was known to wear fine Italian shirts.

Nick sent me an email once that had a refer-a-friend discount code for the menswear section at Khol's.

Can a drama-free thread ever reach 200?

not unless it's about Prince

>>myself and mark are the only non fashion disasters on the zone.

 

something to be truly proud of you guys, like winning a spelling bee at the mentally challenged day camp

Bald heads 

 

 

>>>like winning a spelling bee at the mentally challenged day camp

 

That's actually a pretty good analogy. 

Most zoner males are so bad at dressing themselves, they appear to be boarderline retarded.

How many zoners do you see?

In his imagination - he sees us all.

If anyone has any contact with my ex- Creekhead PLEASE tell him to stop contacting me. I dropped the stalking charges hoping he would stop...but as soon s they were-he was back to contacting me. GRRR!

You have an ex-Creekhead, JR? 

LOW T

Creekhead, do not ever speak to me on this web forum again.

You are below me. Thanks.

Lol...obviously none

Damn, Mark, that's cold. There are certain things that one thinks but doesn't say.

The foibles of youth...

this thread is getting contentious

>>>You are below me.

meaning south of colorado right?

or do you mean fluttering above him on a puffy cloud?

brian k acting like he would prefer something other than drama is laughable.

One post and he and his buddy melt

I got game!!

Lol

 

You guys are all members of that other site. 

Take it over there. 

Oh JR...

Slack, why do you care as much about that other Site as they seem to care about you?

slacker's ass still hurts after the spanking he received from Nancy yesterday.

Yeah, but it's a good hurt.

I like to make fun of the embarrassing crew of participants who 

couldn't control themselves. Are you one of them? 

Slack, Buddy, you're more one of them than anyone. You talk about them, think about them, cross post, start threads and bring t up all the time.

You tell me if I'm one of them?

Yes, you signed up so you can converse with a few banned losers. 

I didn't. I just look out the window and see some losers trying to get back in here. 

Its funny. To me. 

Am I poking beasts or babies? 

I signed up because I wanted to. I'll converse with whom I want, where I want and about what I want. Neither club is exclusive. Don't think that you are so special.

I guarantee that you spend considerably more time there than do I. You can justify your infatuation however you want, but dude, you really are engaged in that place.

At the end of the day, nobody really gives a shit. If they wanted to be there, they would. Your "reporting," or really stalking, is a bit over the top.

Is it true Judit is changing the name here to Viva la Schadenfreude?

She's changing Slack's handle to that.

I didn't bring her name up. 

Slacker i have an idea, why don't you get a .net login and go over and troll the fk out of them. You could even go over and just post perverted pictures of veges.

You think veggies look perverted? Did you hear that in church?

Do you find those pics offensive or obscene? 

Are you conservative?

Are you allowed to post those pics here?

No no and no, i was only trying to help.

I think it would be fun if you did a planned troll raid over there.

Are you flip flopping on trolling? 

Do you want to be trolled about your appearance? 

Have I trolled anyone over their appearance? 

Why are you asking me to leave? 

Have you asked your trolls to leave? 

What's wrong with cargo shorts?

When did i ask you to leave?

My trolls???

 

 

Nothing wrong with cargo shorts.

Thanks Fog.

"jeez.

if it ain't kirley than its creekhead.

whats up fafa? 

with kirley you're outing the guy on the PZ then you get the boot yourself and you start a private email bromance with the fuckin guy. he fowarded me the emails so don't deny it.

then your timeout runs it's course and you arrive back full of piss and vinegar looking to out the guy again?

can't make up your mind or what?"