You are assuming that just because a low level unpaid volunteer was sitting at a table during the one five minute meeting he ever attended with Trump and Sessions that the latter was somehow knowledgeable of the low level unpaid volunteer's pathetic attempts to carve a place for himself in the campaign by trying to arrange meetings that never took place.
Good luck with that.
Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.
Perjury is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.
thom are you still telling people you didn't vote for the white supremacist ticket? i mean, you defend everything that is thrown at the trump admin. hilarious. you are a spineless piece of shit.
repubs trying to rush through the "fuck you, pay me" economic plan of cutting services and tax breaks for normal people and giving them to the corporations. all while claiming they are against the national debt expansion.
truly bizzaro times.
and haven't there been a rash of perjuries in front of congress for a while? nothing happens. they keep doing it.
I have a hard time believing that Sessions just totally forgot that he was at a meeting where he had to step in and say Noooooo, we aren't meeting with Putin. I mean, he's a sharp guy, not second term Reagan. It would be thing you'd remember unless you were a complete dotard. I mean hell, if he'd said "the coffee boy suggested we meet with Putin and I knew that wasn't a good idea and said no" that would have sounded fairly reasonable. But forgetting about Russia TWICE when he knew before the testimony that the possible Russia connection was going to be a topic of questioning? Only a fucking moron would buy that. If he's that forgetful he has no business being Atty Gen. Cracker ass cracker be lying under oath like a rug.
I'll most likely catch some flak for citing the dreaded Palmer Report, but I find his articles entertaining:
"...The Page news prompted respected law professor Richard Painter to tweet “The fix is in. They set up Sessions to take the fall. After he is gone, a new acting AG fires Mueller.” I’ve come to suspect that Painter may indeed be correct about this, as he often is. I also don’t believe that such a plot will succeed. Trump can’t fire Mueller without firing Sessions and Rod Rosenstein first. Too many Senate Republicans are old friends with Sessions, and they don’t want him fired for personal reasons. Many of the Senate Republicans also don’t want Mueller fired, because they don’t want the public blowback of that firing to land on them heading into the midterms.
Donald Trump and his team may indeed be serving up Jeff Sessions as bait, in the hope that Robert Mueller will eagerly bust him. But Mueller knows that if he slaps handcuffs on Sessions, then Trump truly will have an excuse to fire Sessions. Even the Republican Senate wouldn’t be able to justify having a sitting Attorney General who’s in jail or under house arrest...
Perjury is extremely difficult to prove. A prosecutor has to show not only that there was a material misstatement of fact, but also that it was done so willfully—that the person knew it was false when they said it. In Bronston v. United States, a unanimous Supreme Court held that a literally true but unresponsive answer could not form the basis of a perjury conviction even if the individual intended to mislead. In that case, a bankruptcy proceeding, the testimony went as follows:
Q: Do you have any bank accounts in Swiss banks, Mr. Bronston?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever?
A. The company had an account there for about six months, in Zurich.
The questioning clearly implied personal bank accounts, but Mr. Bronston answered in regards to his company, implying that he personally never had Swiss bank accounts. It turns out Bronston had a personal bank account with a Swiss bank for a span of about five years. The government prosecuted him for perjury; a jury convicted, finding that his responses were intentionally misleading.
The Supreme Court overturned the conviction and explained the extremely stringent standards for perjury. Although the Court agreed that there was an implication in the second answer that Bronston never had personal bank accounts in Swiss banks, implied material falsity was insufficient. The Court wrote that while “in casual conversation this interpretation might reasonably be drawn,” perjury does “not deal[] with casual conversation and the statute does not make it a criminal act for a witness to willfully state any material matter that implies any material matter that he does not believe to be true.”
The Court made clear that the burden is on the questioner: “Under the pressures and tension of interrogation, it is not uncommon for the most earnest witnesses to give answers that are not entirely responsive. Sometimes the witness does not understand the question, or may in an excess of caution or apprehension read too much or too little into it . . . . It is the responsibility of the [questioner] to probe; testimonial interrogation, and cross-examination in particular, is a probing, prying, pressing form of inquiry.”
Further, it didn’t matter that the jury in Bronston found as a matter of fact that the witness’s response was intentionally misleading because a “jury should not be permitted to engage in conjecture whether an unresponsive answer, true and complete on its face, was intended to mislead or divert the examiner.”
So when Al Franken asked Jeff Sessions “what he [would] do” if “there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign,” and Jeff Sessions responded “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn’t have—did not have communications with the Russians,” that’s very likely not perjury under the Bronston standard. Sessions later said he understood the question to be about campaign-related contacts and claims he didn’t have specifically campaign-related contacts. Without more, his answer was at worst misleading. Franken’s questioning and Sessions’s answer simply were not sufficiently unambiguous. What might seem like a falsehood or intentionally misleading “in casual conversation” doesn’t rise to perjury.
lets all admit, all we really claim to "know" is what others report on. None of us really have any clue what we argue about when we talk politics. Even when discussing a bill or proposal, its amazing how passionate people are about taking sides but then immediately silent when asked if they actually read the bill.
exactly, yet we speak about these topics with such conviction. Amazing that deadheads, of all people, allow themselves to be led by such deceptive sources.
Ender, that analysis doesn't even address the pertinent language:
Franken: These documents also allegedly say quote, "There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?
Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.
Frontline had some great shows over the last two weeks enetitled “Putin’s Revenge”. It gives some background on Putin witnessing the fall of the Berlin Wall while he was stationed in Dresden and witnessing the west being involved in Iraq and Libya and the downfall of the dictators in those countries and how he won’t let that happen to him.
it goes over how Putin was viewed by Bill Clinton, W, Obama and by Hillary Clinton and how Putin came to hate Hillary because he thinks she and the USA were behind pro-democracy protests that took place outside the Kremlin a few years ago.
Putin has always viewed the USA as his enemy. He thinks Hillary fucked with him and now, or for the last several years he’s fucking with us back. And boy is he winning! Bigly!!!
"Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined."
What a bizarre quote. I'm not convinced that Thom actually believes the nonsense he spouts. Perhaps he's having some good fun and laughs riling up zoners? Or maybe not. No law says an old dead head can't devolve into a right wing zealot.
Speaking of which, Seadoggie seems to have gone away.
You get lied to all the time by newspapers and government officials. Get over it. Nobody in government cares about you or your family. Never have and never will. Spread the word.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
What upsets me about this man
What upsets me about this man, is that he was smirking/laughing at us while he was doing this under oath.
In the end, Sen Al Frankin will have the last comment.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ausonius
You are assuming that just
You are assuming that just because a low level unpaid volunteer was sitting at a table during the one five minute meeting he ever attended with Trump and Sessions that the latter was somehow knowledgeable of the low level unpaid volunteer's pathetic attempts to carve a place for himself in the campaign by trying to arrange meetings that never took place.
Good luck with that.
Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
Oh hello Thom. Or should we
Oh hello Thom. Or should we call you “”Thomrade”? How are things on the troll farm this morning, HMMMMMMMMMMMM?????
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Keep waving your flag, Thom.
Keep waving your flag, Thom.
The meeting never took place?
Sessions, Kushner, Manafort, and Erik Prince all had meetings with russians.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
> a low level unpaid
> a low level unpaid volunteer was sitting at a table
yeah, he took a seat at the table just to take the lunch order. that's all. nothing to see here.
>The meeting never took place?
they were just LUNCH meetings. no Collusion.
PS
Crooked Hlllary!!!
Crazy Bernie!!!
Pochahontas!!!
Donald Trump Is NOT a CROOK!
(just figured I'd beat Thom to the punch)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Carter Page testified
Carter Page testified yesterday that he personally told Sessions he has headed to Russia.
Keebler Elf is in a world of hurt.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>>>>>You are assuming that
>>>>>>>>You are assuming that just because a low level unpaid volunteer
They were just too nice to tell him they didn’t want him there. Just like when the GD tried to fire Bobby.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Oh, and Trump jr also was at
Oh, and Trump jr also was at a meeting with russians.
I know, Thom, you are not interested in facts.
Here's to you, Thom, and to all the phony patriots who defend this criminal administration.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
George was just the covfefe
George was just the covfefe boy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Oh, I thought that was Jared.
Oh, I thought that was Jared.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<a low level unpaid
<<<a low level unpaid volunteer
Thom Th Thom thom thom is at least consistent with the talking point uptake.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
actually the current talking
actually the current talking point is "why aren't the FBI investigating the DNC" so 73 come in at a close second
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Yeah, I haven't said that or
Yeah, I haven't said that or called for that.
Do you ever tire of being completely wrong, Nancy?
the DNC is a private organization and they were within their rights to do what they did, however shitty and underhanded.
...but fool me once and all that.
Fuck the DNC and DWS.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: gypsy tailwind
Jeff Sessions committed
Jeff Sessions committed Perjury.
Perjury is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.
*Done*
Oh, Michael Flynn, we haven't forgot about you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> *Done*
>> *Done*
Don't you have to prove his lie was intentional, meant to deceive, and not accidental? Not sure it's done. We need lawyer Ken up in here.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
it's gonna be an awful year
it's gonna be an awful year for thom.
thom are you still telling people you didn't vote for the white supremacist ticket? i mean, you defend everything that is thrown at the trump admin. hilarious. you are a spineless piece of shit.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: gypsy tailwind
Whatever ender...
Whatever ender...
Even Thom knows it's *Done*.
Loretta Lynch ass hairs and all.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
ender, have you watched the
worth a quick read
(chait): http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/sessionss-russia-testimony-...Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
meanwhile....
meanwhile....
repubs trying to rush through the "fuck you, pay me" economic plan of cutting services and tax breaks for normal people and giving them to the corporations. all while claiming they are against the national debt expansion.
truly bizzaro times.
and haven't there been a rash of perjuries in front of congress for a while? nothing happens. they keep doing it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sun so hot, clouds so low
In order to “prove” the
In order to “prove” the American political system is legit, there will be an avalanche of heads rolling before this administration is terminated.
I’m not a huge fan of popcorn, but there are endless movies being released by Hollywashingtonwood.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I just want to know how Thom
I just want to know how Thom knows about Jeff Session's ass hairs.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
They are easy to see when she
They are easy to see when she remove your head from his asshole a few inches
to take a break to lick trumps filthy ass more
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
Beauregard has Klan love in
Beauregard has Klan love in his ass hairs Thom.
He openly restricted voting as US Attorney.
He would put your librarian ass hairs in prison for drugs if he had his way, or are you still straight and meditating?
True colors shining thru. Just don't pretend to believe in democracy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I have a hard time believing
I have a hard time believing that Sessions just totally forgot that he was at a meeting where he had to step in and say Noooooo, we aren't meeting with Putin. I mean, he's a sharp guy, not second term Reagan. It would be thing you'd remember unless you were a complete dotard. I mean hell, if he'd said "the coffee boy suggested we meet with Putin and I knew that wasn't a good idea and said no" that would have sounded fairly reasonable. But forgetting about Russia TWICE when he knew before the testimony that the possible Russia connection was going to be a topic of questioning? Only a fucking moron would buy that. If he's that forgetful he has no business being Atty Gen. Cracker ass cracker be lying under oath like a rug.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: I rang a silent bell
lol Judit
lol Judit
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
What the hell else has he
What the hell else has he "forgotten"?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
>>>Keep waving your flag,
>>>Keep waving your flag, Thom.
Thommy's flag the flag of "good people" everywhere, Anglosphere.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
I'll most likely catch some
I'll most likely catch some flak for citing the dreaded Palmer Report, but I find his articles entertaining:
"...The Page news prompted respected law professor Richard Painter to tweet “The fix is in. They set up Sessions to take the fall. After he is gone, a new acting AG fires Mueller.” I’ve come to suspect that Painter may indeed be correct about this, as he often is. I also don’t believe that such a plot will succeed. Trump can’t fire Mueller without firing Sessions and Rod Rosenstein first. Too many Senate Republicans are old friends with Sessions, and they don’t want him fired for personal reasons. Many of the Senate Republicans also don’t want Mueller fired, because they don’t want the public blowback of that firing to land on them heading into the midterms.
Donald Trump and his team may indeed be serving up Jeff Sessions as bait, in the hope that Robert Mueller will eagerly bust him. But Mueller knows that if he slaps handcuffs on Sessions, then Trump truly will have an excuse to fire Sessions. Even the Republican Senate wouldn’t be able to justify having a sitting Attorney General who’s in jail or under house arrest...
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/hasnt-arrested-jeff-sessions/5876/
PS: He considers this an "Opinion" article...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Perjury is extremely
Perjury is extremely difficult to prove. A prosecutor has to show not only that there was a material misstatement of fact, but also that it was done so willfully—that the person knew it was false when they said it. In Bronston v. United States, a unanimous Supreme Court held that a literally true but unresponsive answer could not form the basis of a perjury conviction even if the individual intended to mislead. In that case, a bankruptcy proceeding, the testimony went as follows:
Q: Do you have any bank accounts in Swiss banks, Mr. Bronston?
A: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever?
A. The company had an account there for about six months, in Zurich.
The questioning clearly implied personal bank accounts, but Mr. Bronston answered in regards to his company, implying that he personally never had Swiss bank accounts. It turns out Bronston had a personal bank account with a Swiss bank for a span of about five years. The government prosecuted him for perjury; a jury convicted, finding that his responses were intentionally misleading.
The Supreme Court overturned the conviction and explained the extremely stringent standards for perjury. Although the Court agreed that there was an implication in the second answer that Bronston never had personal bank accounts in Swiss banks, implied material falsity was insufficient. The Court wrote that while “in casual conversation this interpretation might reasonably be drawn,” perjury does “not deal[] with casual conversation and the statute does not make it a criminal act for a witness to willfully state any material matter that implies any material matter that he does not believe to be true.”
The Court made clear that the burden is on the questioner: “Under the pressures and tension of interrogation, it is not uncommon for the most earnest witnesses to give answers that are not entirely responsive. Sometimes the witness does not understand the question, or may in an excess of caution or apprehension read too much or too little into it . . . . It is the responsibility of the [questioner] to probe; testimonial interrogation, and cross-examination in particular, is a probing, prying, pressing form of inquiry.”
Further, it didn’t matter that the jury in Bronston found as a matter of fact that the witness’s response was intentionally misleading because a “jury should not be permitted to engage in conjecture whether an unresponsive answer, true and complete on its face, was intended to mislead or divert the examiner.”
So when Al Franken asked Jeff Sessions “what he [would] do” if “there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign,” and Jeff Sessions responded “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn’t have—did not have communications with the Russians,” that’s very likely not perjury under the Bronston standard. Sessions later said he understood the question to be about campaign-related contacts and claims he didn’t have specifically campaign-related contacts. Without more, his answer was at worst misleading. Franken’s questioning and Sessions’s answer simply were not sufficiently unambiguous. What might seem like a falsehood or intentionally misleading “in casual conversation” doesn’t rise to perjury.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-lying-perjury-false-statements-and-obstr...
TLDR - the burden of proof necessary to convince a zoner, isn't the same standard needed to criminally try someone.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
Jeff Sessions has more
Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.<<
Oh, go fuck yourself, you asshat.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Back to Back
>> Jeff Sessions has more
>> Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.
I'm trying to find a way this isn't motivated by intense racism, and I'm failing
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
The sad thing is, Thommy most
The sad thing is, Thommy most likely typed that with a straight face.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
Jeff Sessions has more
Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs
this will go over well with the prison population...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
Sessions is probably still
Sessions is probably still waiting on his first ass hair.
Middle Earth puberty is different.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
lets all admit, all we really
lets all admit, all we really claim to "know" is what others report on. None of us really have any clue what we argue about when we talk politics. Even when discussing a bill or proposal, its amazing how passionate people are about taking sides but then immediately silent when asked if they actually read the bill.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
We’re not discussing a bill
We’re not discussing a bill in this thread
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Back to Back
>>> lets all admit, all we
>>> lets all admit, all we really claim to "know" is what others report on. None of us really have any clue what we argue about when we talk politics.
How do you "know" anything you haven't seen with your eyes then, politics or otherwise
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
exactly, yet we speak about
exactly, yet we speak about these topics with such conviction. Amazing that deadheads, of all people, allow themselves to be led by such deceptive sources.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
Ender, that analysis doesn't
Ender, that analysis doesn't even address the pertinent language:
Franken: These documents also allegedly say quote, "There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?
Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
Frontline had some great
Frontline had some great shows over the last two weeks enetitled “Putin’s Revenge”. It gives some background on Putin witnessing the fall of the Berlin Wall while he was stationed in Dresden and witnessing the west being involved in Iraq and Libya and the downfall of the dictators in those countries and how he won’t let that happen to him.
it goes over how Putin was viewed by Bill Clinton, W, Obama and by Hillary Clinton and how Putin came to hate Hillary because he thinks she and the USA were behind pro-democracy protests that took place outside the Kremlin a few years ago.
Putin has always viewed the USA as his enemy. He thinks Hillary fucked with him and now, or for the last several years he’s fucking with us back. And boy is he winning! Bigly!!!
should be a must watch for all Americans
part 1: http://www.pbs.org/video/putins-revenge-mzz1lp/
part 2: http://www.pbs.org/video/putins-revenge-part-two-wpsiq2/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
>>>>Jeff Sessions has more
>>>>Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.
what is your experience in that state of Alabama?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Oaksterdam Dan
<<<<<Jeff Sessions has more
<<<<<Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined.
Jenna how's the weather in St. Petersburg oops I mean Thom???
Nothing like a batshit quote from Thom to drive thread activity. Shall we call it "dropping a Thommy Poo"??
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Across
viva=kitty kat
viva=kitty kat
really white guy in the sweater vest= extra strength catnip
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roarshock
"Jeff Sessions has more
"Jeff Sessions has more integrity in one of his ass hairs than Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch have in their entire beings combined."
What a bizarre quote. I'm not convinced that Thom actually believes the nonsense he spouts. Perhaps he's having some good fun and laughs riling up zoners? Or maybe not. No law says an old dead head can't devolve into a right wing zealot.
Speaking of which, Seadoggie seems to have gone away.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Hill and Bill committed
Hill and Bill committed perjury as well.
Nobody cares.
Lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
You get lied to all the time
You get lied to all the time by newspapers and government officials. Get over it. Nobody in government cares about you or your family. Never have and never will. Spread the word.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
No, our rep. does - we speak
No, our rep. does - we speak with him whenever he's in town. He's a real person.