Roger Waters on Smirconish

Roger's not wrong about a lot of the things he says, but at the same time, I don't think he's really helping.

Didn't make a very good case for himself 

Roger's not wrong about a lot of the things he says, but at the same time, I don't think he's really helping.<<<

Yeah, but does being "not wrong" about some things somehow temper that which he could be viewed as wrong about?

I don't claim to have a direct channel to what's right or wrong in absolute terms, and can see how the US would freak out if Russia sent 100 nukes to be stationed in Montreal and courted Canada to throw in with a Russian block alliance; at the same time, in what world and who among us would be copacetic with our unilateral invasion of Montreal - while circumventing all international efforts to broker an acceptable peace accord (all while effing with the rest of the world's democratic institutions)??

While there are some other things I agree with him, I don't think it works like a buffet ... where you get to pick and choose which "compartment" is ok to occupy as a supporter.   While I certainly don't believe RW is anything near what Trump is about, is this sort of compartmentalization not a hallmark of Trumpism?   IOW, one gets to pick what they like and overlook the rest. 

Having said all that, I still don't lump him into the same category as a Nugent.

Poor roger 

> I don't claim to have a direct channel to what's right or wrong in absolute terms

Unlike Roger, who seems to see things in that way. Where i find myself agreeing with him is in his stance that the superpowers of the West are often in the wrong. Kind of like when, after one of his meetings with Putin, Trump was asked to respond to the claim that Putin was a murderer, and Trump's response was the US are killers too. I hate to say it, but Trump got it right that one time at least, and I think Waters would have to agree.

What really rubs me the wrong way is Water's arrogance, but it shouldn't be a surprise that he possesses that quality. He's been a rock star for decades, and he's be greatly and widely admired and highly compensated for doing what he does. And he is the guy who write The Wall after all, so he's no stranger to the narcissistic impulse for Fascism.

But the arrogant message he telegraphs to his audience at the start of his shows now doesn't get my panties in a bunch: "If you're one of those 'I love Pink Floyd, but I can't stand Roger's politics' people, you might do well to fuck off to the bar right now." That's just rock and roll talking as far as I can tell, and it reminds me of the line from the Jefferson Starship song Stairway to Cleveland: "Fuck you. We do what we want."

Where I found myself responding to his Smerconish interview with my own Fuck You was when he was talking about the only message he has. He quotes his lyrics from Echoes--"Two strangers passing in the street / By chance, two separate glances meet / And I am you and what I see is me" (a wordy version of Namaste, imo)--and mentions that he wrote those words in 1970, the implication being that he had it all figured out back then, and he hasn't really changed since then. Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. If he was really plugged into the personal in that way, I would think he wouldn't be surrounded by controversy in the way he is, and he'd wouldn't need to grind axes for his former bandmates in the ways he has.

That said, will i go to his show when he plays LA? I'm a definite maybe for now. We'll see.

Fantastic show... highly recommend.


I think Roger comes up short not in his message but in his attitude toward discussion. But what is missing is the full context of the complete interview, which will air later on supposedly. Not that it will correct things but clearly there was a preconceived outcome...  And to be fair, from the outset of Smercs opening, he set out to bait Roger, he nearly said as much... and he only mentions "Biden is a war criminal" but fails to mention any of the other presidents, no one was left unscathed in Bravery... also, Roger and Smerc go back a ways 

Tough to defend someone who just stuck up for China and the Russians. Wow. I guess I would define it as naive

He rewrote some history there as well.  I think most mindful Americans are aware of the rest of the world cannot stay at peace without us.

And we must at remember that because we pulled out of a multinational agreement unilaterally IRAN NOW HAS AN ATOMIC BOMB.

That's right ladies and gentlemen:  the biggest foreign policy blunder in history.

Why don't they use the bomb?

It's a beautiful, balmy, Southern California summer day. It's 80 degrees ...

I said balmy ... I could say bomby ...

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His actual thoughts on the Russian Ukraine mess...I don't think he is so much for authoritarian dictatorships like China or Russia but rightfully points out the bad behavior of all governments regardless of how "different" they claim they are.

"I figured something out after tossing and turning all last night. We, on the left often make the mistake of still looking on Russia as a socialist enterprise, of course it isn’t, it’s an unadulterated neo liberal capitalist gangster mafia, modeled on the USA. So it should come as no surprise that its, possibly unhinged, autocratic leader has no more respect for the UN charter and international law than the USA does. They’re all just gangsters. Which means it’s even more beholden on us freedom loving law abiding anti war activists to stand shoulder to shoulder with all our brothers and sisters all over the world irrespective of race religion or nationality. That means standing with the Russian people the Ukrainian people the Palestinian people the Syrian people the Lebanese people the Kurds, African Americans, Mexicans, Ecuadorian rain forest dwellers, the Armenians the Greeks the Inuit the Mapuche and the Shinnecock to name but a few. It also means standing with all refugees everywhere all over the world, irrespective of the colour of their eyes and hair people! Also, in my view, in the short term, in these difficult days we should stop pouring good guy/bad guy fuel on the fire in the Ukraine, demand a ceasefire in the name of humanity, and stop pouring arms into that bleeding country just to satisfy the insatiable appetite of the international armaments industry. Instead we could raise our voices to encourage the idea of a neutral Ukraine as has been repeatedly suggested by wise men of good faith for many years. I suspect that a large majority of Ukrainians would welcome such an arrangement, but who am I to say? Maybe we should ask them? One thing’s for sure It can’t be left up to the gangsters. Left to their own devices they will kill us all.

Opinions are like assholes as they say, everyone's got one.  Not a fan of Waters music though did see the Wall a Nassau Coliseum in 1980 and Us and Them and Clouds have powered some might fine times.

Instead we could raise our voices to encourage the idea of a neutral Ukraine<<<<

I've come to a similar conclusion in that it could be one of the best "solutions", but should we allow the "best" to get in the way of the "better" in light of what we know about Putin as a bad actor on the world stage?  I've also wondered why we haven't appealed to the world community first to broker a broad peace agreement that would recognize Ukraine's neutrality instead of immediately considering an expansion of NATO?

In a similar light, I believe the Dems in both chambers of Congress ought to "fess up" and each publicly tell a tale (in the voice of the narrator on House of Cards) about how they work the system to get elected and retain power once in office.   Dems will push on voting rights to an extent, but what are the chances they'll get serious about MUCH NEEDED institutional/electoral reform that would pull the rug out from underneath special interests' grip on being able to game the system?   In my estimation, it is is low to none.  So, should I "both sides" what's going on right now and lump Dems into the same boat as those who are copacetic with an effing COUP??  I mean, we could go back in time and dig up contextual reasons as to why any given despot came to power - and at some level - disperse blame to a larger context.  Should Hitler and the Nazis be absolved from accountability for WW2 because the Allies didn't work out a fair peace resolution to the WWI?

I voted for Gary Johnson twice and Ralph Nader once, but I know when it's time to "pick a side" (at least for the time being) ... as much as it's not the "best" alternative.

Perhaps RW is a rigid idealist, and I can't fault him for that, but this is not to say I don't believe he's misguided at the core and amplifying a misguided message; at least in terms of the practicability of getting a sufficient number of others on board.  So personally, I don't feel it's appropriate to support the amplification of a misguided message that may have dire consequences.

It's interesting, he's now someone who I won't see for this general reason and he joins the ranks of "Cat Stevens", Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, Mike Love, Ted Nugent, etc.  Everyone in this group has their own trajectory as to why I've erected a boundary.



Unlike Roger, who seems to see things in that way. Where i find myself agreeing with him is in his stance that the superpowers of the West are often in the wrong. Kind of like when, after one of his meetings with Putin, Trump was asked to respond to the claim that Putin was a murderer, and Trump's response was the US are killers too. I hate to say it, but Trump got it right that one time at least, and I think Waters would have to agree<<<

I agree with what you've stated, but see my post above as to why I think his "larger message" isn't productive (in the least) and likely harmful.


Again, naive. We don't enslave our own people, torture and jail them for exercising their human rights

The West is no bargain, and it can really look bad at times but it is a significantly better than  the Chinese communists or the Russian oligarchy.



P.S., Russia is a shitty little country with an economy smaller than California but they have a nuke.  Just like Iran does now thanks to the idiot, moron, treasonous, seditious, TRUMP

When FDR was told by his ambassador to Germany in the 30's about Kristal Nacht and persecution of the Jews who were having their property and assets seized at the time - his response was it is really bad but it's not like the US can say anything because that is exactly how we treat black people. He was right.

That doesn't mean we  should have allowed Hitler to march across Europe. Yes both sides suck, but what I have never understood about the left is their inability to see that one sides sucks way more. I get that American "Patriots" completely ignore the sins of America, but it is possible to simultaneously believe that we have to stand up to Putin and understand that America is not innocent. 

As for how we would react if America wanted to form a military alliance with Canada thankfully we don't have to worry about that because Canada is smart enough to understand that both sides suck but one side sucks way more.

It's not like we pushed NATO on Eastern Europe - they begged us to join after 40 years of post WW2 occupation, that resulted in the subjugation of their countries under Russian rule. They knew for sure they didn't want that again. 

As for Ukraine being neutral that has been pretty clearly taken off the table by Putin, and if you don't believe me just ask Finland. Yes the military industrial complex is having a wet dream over all of this, but that doesn't make them wrong in this case. Putin has shown again and again that the only thing he understands is force. It is pretty clear that that is what the Ukrainian people believe too. 

Same thing goes for China. Before Xi was the ruler he was given Tibet to "pacify" probably because they wanted him to fail, but he didn't fail -  he ordered cattle prods to be used on Buddhist Nuns and brought the break away region under control. 

The world is a shitty place and for now America is the least shitty among the super powers. 

I'll be at the Roger Waters show but I did buy my tickets in 2019 which was sadly a more innocent time.


His response was it is really bad but it's not like the US can say anything because that is exactly how we treat black people. He was right. <<<

Maybe it's the larger "moral arc" that is more important?




> I think his "larger message" isn't productive (in the least) and likely harmful.

I'm in agreement, Face, and I said as much in my first post here: I don't think he's really helping.

I didn't think he was very off base until it got to china, although admittedly I'm relatively ignorant as to Taiwan's history, but as far as the question of who have the Chinese invaded and slaughtered, Tibet, for one comes to mind.

I'm a big fan but have never seen waters live, his tix r a bit too expensive for my blood.

For being such a bleeding heart liberal he's sure a damn good capitalist. 

hope he puts his $ where his mouth is and donates a lot of the money to worthy causes.

either that or there must b a lot of overhead to keep them holographic pigs and sheep in the air or whatever

I saw Waters for $10 (I could have paid $5 if I'd had that denomination; divorced dad was two feet from the door, frantically waving the extra) at Radio City, with all the bells and whistles.

Gilmour on The Pier was way better, with none of them.


We were all much younger then.  But I'm guessing the two shows would stack up much the same today.

Yeah Furious, I had similar thoughts about his rants while charging an arm and a leg for tix. He did say he had 120 support people with him on this tour so he is supporting a lot of folks. Plus local union help. 

"Pink Floyd founder cancels . . ."  (AP)

"Polish venue cancels . . ."  (Reuters)


Side by side on Yahoo.

^Yes, I saw that 'conflict' too. Hard to say which take is real but the underlying issue is what it is.

He does apparently put on quite a production (I personally have not seen him live yet) and that takes trucks, diesel, and personnel. He is clearly at liberty to at least help set ticket prices and people can choose to pay and attend or not. Pretty easy. I don't subscribe to his politics and don't really care what they may be and that goes for any live music act and/or it's members thereof. We overtly "support" anybody we pay to see and they can run their shows, related content, and "message" however they see fit. Again, we can choose to attend or not. I would rather not have any political messages woven into any concert(s) but my choice would be whether to attend or leave if I don't like it. For example, David Crosby is a self-described asshole and many people agree. If/how that may affect one's consumption and enjoyment of his music is personal. Again pretty easy.

I would not have been there if someone didn't offer me a free floor seat. Too much $$$ for my blood.

^I hear that. Free is perfect but there are some current AXS "face value" tix for LA @ $55 that I may lean back on if I can't find anything for less at the venue day-of. However, I think I am overall more interested in Nick Mason's show/tour. 

Other than some of the songs played, and completely disregarding all the bloated special effects at Waters shows, for me Nick Mason's show is minor leagues compared to what Waters is doing (and yet is very similar in price).

Roger Waters, whatever his politics and over-the-top theatrics, is a true rock star who has always musically put on a raw, big-time live rock 'n roll show.

Which in my experience neither Mason or Gilmour or anyone else has ever come close to.

Musically, Waters shows have ALWAYS been far better live than anything I've seen any other PF members do, with or without all the video effects and shallow end floating sheep foolishness Waters uses. Beyond all the extra BS, Waters brings the 'rock 'n roll' of Pink Floyd to his shows, and at an elemental level, beyond their hits or anything else, Pink Floyd was at their best a rock 'n roll band.

I'm a big Gilmour fan, but every time I've seen him over the years, whether with his own band or with that sad faux Floyd band he recorded and toured with, it always came off to me as homogenized, smooth, flat, a bit dull. Never rock 'n roll.

And Mason? The old stuff in smaller venues, whatever, it's DSO compared to the real thing.

The bottom line is that IMO Roger Waters was the true star of Pink Floyd and he is what made them great, and in my experience his live shows have always clearly shown why.

He was even great in the totally toned down acoustic setting at the Bridge Benefit concerts at Shoreline in 2016, where he used (the great rock 'n roll band) My Morning Jacket as his backing band. Even acoustically, the dude knew how to bring the rock.

IMO, after they broke up in '81, if you've ever wanted "get" some true live Pink Floyd you have to go to a Roger Waters show.

And people are complaining about prices? There were good lower bowl seats available in SF this weekend for under $100, and folks can get in the door for less than that. In this day & age, for a big league arena show there's nothing to complain about there.

Whatever you may think of his politics or him personally, if you're a fan of Pink Floyd and you've never seen the real band, then it's a shame if you've never seen Roger Waters, because that means you've never seen a true level of Pink Floyd.

Yeah I don't get the complaint about Rogers ticket prices, a fantastic seat to his show was less than i paid for each of the Phil shows I saw this summer. It was also less than the Aussie or Brit Floyd tribute shows that came by this year. It's a lot of show for 70$

>>>It was also less than the Aussie or Brit Floyd tribute shows that came by this year


yeah, y the hell r those tribute bands' tix so expensive?

guess them lasers don't pay for themselves

The bottom line is that Syd Barrett was the true star of Pink Floyd<<<


Put me in the Gilmore/Wright & Mason clan. I thought that both Division Bell and Delicate Sound of Thunder tours were well worth seeing. I caught Waters in 2017 and it was a great show, but Wright/Gilmour bring that trippy Floyd feel to the material post Waters.

I have been seeing them all since Gilmour in 84, first Roger was KAOS and check out a show on most tours since for all of em. The post Waters Floyd is much better than most care to admit and the material stands up very well in the catalog. Waters always puts on a great show even if a lot of tours featured a lot less "live" singing than i prefer. He seems to have addressed that on this tour....Nick puts on a stellar show and it fills in the blanks in the catalog that Waters and Gilmour like to pretend didn't happen so it rounds things out nicely for us fans. 

I also have seen Floyd with Waters in 77, division bell tour, thunder tour, Solo Gilmour, Kaos, and 2017 Waters. Regret not seeing Mason's band 

I have come to shun fundamentalists of all stripes.

After seeing the show I feel like I have a better understanding of where he is coming from. He is firmly in the Asange, Snowden, Glenn Greenwald camp. The biggest problem in the world is America and the liberal west and pointing out the problems in Russia and China is just a distraction from the real villain. The only way to a better world is the dismantling of American power.

Of course I 100% disagree with this view and there is something about preaching that message in a state of the art arena where the artist is grossing around a $1M a show that is pretty disgusting. I have way more respect for Tom Morello who gave a free concert the day after the Roger Waters show in a park in Sacramento to support the United Farm Workers, but Roger wrote way better music so there is that.


>>>He is firmly in the Asange, Snowden, Glenn Greenwald camp.



Great show in LA last night and even better floating in on a scalped $50 ticket bought in the street outside the venue. His vocals have surprisingly held up very good over the years, even with some obvious dub work in the beginning of the show. It was my first time seeing him and the theatrics were great but not as over the top as I expected. I will say that I have never seen anyone drink straight up gin out of the bottle like that, to the tune of at least half of a bottle. He seemed to be feeling it too but not as much as I would expect. An "odd irony" is that the 'in the round' stage configuration resembled a swastika from where I was seated. LOL. The guy may be self-absorbed and arrogant but is also clearly a wild and fascinating artist and he played an array of some of Pink Floyd's greatest work. Cool show for sure.

...hats off to the entire band, especially Jonathon Wilson who, although not THE lead guitarist, did some heavy lifting thereof and also sang a couple tunes too. I saw him sit in with Furthur in LA & Santa Barbara in Fall 2012 and he was great there/then as well.