RIP Roe v Wade

Who leaked it, and depending on who, why? I want to call them motherfuckers, but I feel sorry for their mothers. Although, didn't their mothers raise them to be these reprehensible assholes?

I can't find words for how upset I am that the decision is going this way.

It's days like this that make me think we should stage our own insurrection.

Probably a clerk leaked it.  No other leak like this has ever happened.  This is historic and tragic.

>>>>we should stage our own insurrection.

im not so sure. Let's just meet at Brett's house to discuss. 

The biggest and only shame of abortion is that it's not retroactive. 

 love saving fetuses,  but find it perfectly sound to send financially strapped, healthy young men and women to war?????

And the wealthy politicians daughters who need an abortion will always get the professional services they need - discreetly of course - because money and power get you what you want.  

Fuck these fuckers, all day,  everyday

To me abortion is just a medical procedure, and it always came down to doctor - patient confidentiality.  Like many medical issues, they're rarely fun nor easy, with sacrifices often involved, all the more reason why it should be nobody else's biz.  

So they shockingly leaked, the shocking news, that didn't surprise anybody (following the conservative agenda).  I agree that whoever did this wanted to stir the shit, isn't it primary season right now?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k54pOUtYLZw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF79QY3S2-o

In case it wasn't clear, when I said I wanted to call them motherfuckers… I was referring to the justices, not the people who did the leaking.

This could become a death (no)blow to the republican party,  as prostitutes across the nation refuse to have unprotected sex (I'm looking at you former president).   Will Mexico allow these women(?), screwed by Republicans (like most Americans have been), across their borders for these criminal medical procedures? 

Hopefully, Vermont will soon become the first state to have a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing a woman's right to choose.

<<< This could become a death (no)blow to the republican party

LOL ,,  if I had a nickel for every time I've heard that,,, just in the last 5 years. 

Their damage control is unbeatable. Liberals are weak and worthless.

So long womens Rights. Another 10 years under mcconnell they may lose the right to vote.

Knew this was coming ever since the right stole the SCOTUS.

Trump's legacy.

 >I wanted to call them motherfuckers… I was referring ring to the justices<

Yep. If only there had been something the voters  could have done to affect which justices were appointed. 

From Fred Guttenberg, a father who's child was murdered at Parkland School. 

>>>>Yep. If only there had been something the voters  could have been done to affect which justices were appointed. 

Did 65 million do what you wanted? Was that more than the 62 million that voted the opposite way you wanted? 

I don't think this is the future most Americans want and the GOP majority court  ruling  could backfire and motivate mid term voters to support Democrats who are pushing for Congress to change the laws protecting womens fundamental rights. There's already proposed legislation that just need more support in Congress. Time to fight like hell for our rights, and time for every decent voter to stop with the 'both parties are the same' BS that got us in this situation to begin with by enabling Trump to tilt the Court's balance 

Reproductive freedom will not be banned in California.

>Did 65 million do what you wanted? Was that more than the 62 million that voted the opposite way you wanted<

I see that you still do not understand how our electoral system works.

>Reproductive freedom will not be banned in California.
 

not so fast, while the GOP Court is going with States rights on the issue, should the GOP get control of Congress they would likely promote national abortion ban legislation in response to Democratic led legislation to protect womens reproductive rights  

I don't understand anything, dude. I'm just a renter. 

the american taliban 

handmaid's tale is some creepy shit.

Why do people worldwide seem to want to be ruled by fascists?

I guess they crave security in an insecure world.

I'm going to Blondie this summer. I've been in love with Debbie Harry since I was 9.

 >I don't understand anything, dude. I'm just a renter

I know, slacker, you're helpless

Radicle Activist Republican Judges

They have been saying it out loud for 42 years. This isn't a Trump thing. Thomas was nominated by Bush 1 and Alito by Bush 2. This is the Republican party. I guess there is a difference between the parties. 

Renters need abortion rights too, even if they are daft.

Next up gay marriage and birth control, both decisions came down during this same time period. Therefore those SC decisions probably don't count and can overturned.

Both gorsuch and kavanaugh stated to the Senate that roe was settled law. I guess they were fibbing

birth it

so we can kill it in 20 years

the way god intended

Hillary’s emails... We got robbed in 2016. And Mitch McConnell knew exactly what he was doing when he blocked Garland. 

This has been planned in plain sight for decades. All the posturing of Kavanaugh and Gorsuch was just a dog and pony show. 

RBG should have stepped down before 2014-15. 

People should have listened and voted. There are winners and losers in politics, and the pro-choice crowd has lost, and this game is over. And it’s not just Roe. Elections have consequences, and we’ll be seeing more. 

Voting third party for the White House doesn’t fix this, either. Sorry to say. El Niño is totally correct above: This is the very simple Blue vs Red game, and they’re NOT both the same. It’s as simple as this: Red wins, Roe is gone. Anyone who didn’t vote Blue is partly responsible for everything that follows from this. I’m not saying anyone has to like that fact. 

> Both gorsuch and kavanaugh stated to the Senate that roe was settled law. I guess they were fibbing

Susan Collins made a similar observation this morning.

https://bangordailynews.com/2022/05/03/politics/susan-collins-reacts-to-...

When abortion is illegal and there is a pill that can cause an abortion - every miscarriage can be investigated as a crime. 

The way the senate and the house are set swings the power to the red states. We are heading to minority rule. McConnell blocks garland, they elect numb nuts and jam thru 3 justices, 2 of which are questionable. 

Apparently, all that matters is that they believe their ideas are better than our ideas, the majority of the American population. They plan to rule as they see fit cause God is on their side.

The 50 Democratic Senators represent 41,549,808 more people than the 50 Republican Senators

>>>>every miscarriage can be investigated as a crime. 

Happens in places in Latin America that still have strict anti-abortion laws.

Dems bringing a butter knife to a gun fight...

expand the court 

reform the filabuster

elections have consequences

VOTE

Susan Collins is straight up lying. She wasn’t born yesterday and she knew the whole time exactly why those particular judges were nominated, and she voted for them when it was good for her own political position to do so. What she is saying now is straight up fake shock. There is no possible way that Collins didn’t know exactly what was going down. She is lying to cover her ass. 

But even apart from the Senate being unfairly tilted to the Red states, it really only matters who is President when it comes to appointing judges, and so it doesn’t give any of us voters a pass in every SWING state. For every close-margin state like Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, where Hillary could have beaten Trump in 2016, those voters who either didn’t vote or who voted for a third party candidate are the ones who fucked us. Voting Green is great for smaller races. But for the White House, you have Red or Blue. If you vote Green (or for any other non-Blue candidate) for President, you are voting Red. Like it or not.

This is all our own fucking fault. We heard all the warnings, we had all the information, and too many of US were too fucking stubborn or stupid and didn’t vote Big Blue. And that is the only reason why this is happening: Because of the electoral college in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. I don’t need to name names of who people wanted to vote for. But we fucked ourselves. Sorry to say. 

maybe the soft-ass dems shouldn't have just rolled over and went through with trumps nominees...?

i know they didn't have mc connel's gavel, but.....

love how these motherfuckers cry for their freedom fries, until its something they don't like. then its big gov at it's worst.

not sure how its the peoples' fault....decades of koch-level funding and the rise and support of the federalist society. they are and have been stacking the courts for years. they are smarter and much more well funded than the left...

It’s the people’s fault when battleground states can tilt the election Red or Blue for the electoral college. When it comes down to that, it comes down completely to the voters. 

Yes the electoral college is a travesty and should be repealed, but it is still the system that we have to deal with as of today. We don’t have to like it, and maybe too many people are ignorant about it, but ignorance is not an excuse. Voters can change things if they vote —  if they vote strategically in their best interests. Period. 

Part of being Green is that you have to beat down the Red. In the big elections, you only do that by being in bed with Big Blue. Not saying we have to like it, but that’s the way it is. 

> they are smarter and much more well funded than the left

I don't think the Right is necessarily smarter than the Left, but the Right is definitely more focused on what they're trying to accomplish. Tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations. Deregulation. Guns. And, of course, abortion. I also don't think the Right is necessarily better funded, but again, with such a clear focus, their dollars get spent much more efficiently.

The collective energy of the Left is scattered all over the place; they're trying to do too much, and failing at most of it.

We pay senators and representatives $180,000 per year plus another million per year budget to hire workers to perform the duties of those senators and representatives. The last 6 years cost around 1.7 billion dollars for the Democratic party elected members and staff but it's still not their responsibility. Blame some low rent voters that didn't go to college. 

>Blame some low rent voters that didn't go to college. 

No need to disparage all voters who pay rent and didn't go to college. And please, that "woe is me" schtick was old years ago, Slack. 

what or who are the wealthy funding progressive issues anywhere near the level that is poured into the right?

......

I blame every voter who ever said there is no difference between the parties and didn't vote Democratic as a result.

The fall of democracy in the US will be swift from here. The right wing dings will have all three branches in 2024 and then everything they don't like will fall: privacy rights, environmental protections, the social safety net and so on. They will reverse everything from the New Deal forward and then some. The US as we know it is over unless something radical changes, and I doubt it will. They have all the guns!

>I blame every voter who ever said there is no difference between the parties and didn't vote Democratic as a result<

Yep.

>>>>>>>I blame

Exactly. Totally working. 

Hey, how about trying 'I accept some responsibility', mister low rent 

> what or who are the wealthy funding progressive issues anywhere near the level that is poured into the right

There are different ways to look at this, but just looking at the cost of the 2020 election, Democratic candidates and groups spent $6.9 billion, compared to $3.8 billion for Republicans.

Also for 2020, the top three donors (Sheldon Adelson for the Republicans, and Michael Bloomberg and Thomas Steyer for the Democrats) contributed $442,798,224, with Adelson kicking in $218,168,500, Bloomberg $152,509,750, and Steyer $72,119,974. When combined, Bloomberg and Steyer ($224,629,724) contributed more than Adelson.

I'm clearly responsible for the results of 6.9 billion spent, right? 

>Exactly. Totally working<

I tried emphasizing the importance of the Supreme Court, but all I got were dumb ass, passive aggressive nonsense and the blue maga insults. 

St. George ....as always, spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgjGwOByays

It is up to each and every one of us, including you, including me, to register and vote in our best interests. It is on each and every one of our shoulders. We can’t blame anyone else if we didn’t vote and vote WISELY. That’s it. 

It’s not too late to change this: We have a Congressional midterm election in six months. If enough people vote Blue, the Republicans will lose more of their minority power. And of course voting Blue for President in two years. Whether it is Sleepy Fucking Joe or whoever else. Also governor races.

These days it’s not so much who you need to vote FOR, it’s who you need to vote AGAINST. This upcoming election is still very important. Will YOU vote and vote wisely? Will YOU encourage others to do the same? 

 people that don't live in swing or contested states...doesn't matter if they voted for daffy duck. i know people have a hard time with this here...

and sorry bloomberg and the rest of that ilk are fucking republicans. they spent $ as a pissing war against trump.

Call them what you want, Turtle, but they threw a boatload of cash at the Left in 2020. You asked about money spent on progressive issues; like it or not, that's the answer.

Business as usual. 
The fascists are playing the long game. 
Banning abortion will lead to fuller prisons and plenty of cannon fodder for war. 

ok fair enough mike e. 

i would dispute dems = left...

so there are some individual donors, sure..

the right wing think tanks, societies....and hey not to mention they own a whole fucking media station/company....aka fox..shouldn't there be a law against foreign nationals owning a media company here?

it's way uneven. and please don't tell me cnbc or whatever tv entity is liberal when we all know its just corporate....

Trust the process.

Who'd you vote for in the 2020 presidential election, Turtle? I doubt it was Daffy Duck.

I think the way I read this is that more people of childbearing age might want to vote* -

2020 - Proportion of Eligible Adult Population Who Reported Voting by Age Groups (women black line. men grey line)

Among citizens ages 18-64, a higher proportion of women than men have turned out to vote since the mid-1990s when the Census began collecting this data. The gender gap tends to be particularly large among voters ages 18-44. This pattern is reversed among older voters (65 and up). Male voters tend to turnout at higher rates than women voters in this age cohort.

https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGBG

* I have not verified these figures

I blame all the third party voters that couldn't stand Chump but refused to vote for Hillary . 

The lesser of two sex offenders is still a sex offender. 

>ho'd you vote for in the 2020 presidential election, Turtle? I doubt it was Daffy Duck.<

i voted for sleepy joe. yes, i could have voted and have voted before for daffy duck. as i stated previously, it was a protest to the silver-spoon fed fascist con man....

>The lesser of two sex offenders is still a sex offender<

Took longer than I expected for the self righteous "lesser of two evils is still evil" argument

Was just told to leave my downtown Portland office a little early... protests are in play. 

> i voted for sleepy joe...it was a protest to the silver-spoon fed fascist con man....

I get that, and I guessed you voted that way to get Trump out. Me too. And that's exactly the kind of collective focus that's needed to really change things, like maybe the way the Senate works, and the composition of the SCOTUS. The Left has wasted a lot of time, money, and opportunities arguing about different shades of blue. That shit needs to stop if change is ever going to come.

Didn't we do this thread from 2015-2020? 

I was on hiatus for part of that, but yeah.

>Didn't we do this thread from 2015-2020?<

Yep, but the chickens come home to roost. 

Can I get a "Blue MAGA" or a "neoliberal fuck"?

But yeah, at least a few of us predicted that this would happen with SCOTUS.

The Blue MAGA crew was pretty successful at sowing dissent. It's almost like they were on Putin's payroll.

The 2016 election was the beginning of the end. Shits going to unworthy fast. Enjoy the next two years, it's over after that.

Can we shift the discussion to who the fuc$$Ks in Phil's band...

Woz, your town will be hit hardest. 

https://www.ktvu.com/news/santa-clara-county-sees-rise-in-out-of-state-p...

>"We're going to see about a 3000% increase of patients into California which is about 1.5 million patients. It's going to take all of us to take care of those patients," said Stacy Cross, President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Mar Monte.

This thread is prime example of how fucked the blue party is.  Keep eating eachother!

NPA on this end . I didn't read the thread but this ought to big time bring out the Dem, Susan Collins type Repub  and NPA women voters big time at mid-term elections. 

Bernie in 2016 was Ralph Nader in 2000. We fucked ourselves. Sorry. It’s one thing to debate nuances on progressive policy, but when you need to rally all hands on deck to beat down the Red Tide, you vote against your enemy. If not, you lose. What is happening now, and what happened on Jan 6 2021, are the results of 2016. Bernie... Nader... who’s the next spoiler? I would have loved to vote for the Socialists, if I didn’t have to beat down the Fascists. But the Fascists aren’t going away unless we vote them out en masse. Here we are, and not because of the DNC. Sorry. 

>Bernie in 2016 was Ralph Nader in 2000<

Except Sanders didn't run in the general election. He wasn't a choice. He told his supporters to vote for Clinton.

This lands squarely on the "I'll never vote for a neoliberal, I'll never vote for a corporate democrat, the Democrats and Republicans are the same, and the lesser of two evils is still evil" people 

And it's not just the voters in swing states, the blame is shared by anyone making these arguments. 

> This thread is prime example of how fucked the blue party is.

It's a rare day when I find myself agreeing with Racket, but this is one of those occasions.

^maybe so, Mike, but I'm angry. This was the obvious conclusion, yet I'm still hearing the same brain dead, self righteous arguments against the democrats. 

Dem don't equal left? 

They are as left as you will get in a presidential election!

Godamned fools.

>>>>>These days it’s not so much who you need to vote FOR, it’s who you need to vote AGAINST. 

Same as it ever was.

Trump straight up told everyone before the 2016 election: I will appoint judges to the Supreme Court who will overturn Roe v Wade. 

I don’t recall Hillary saying that. 

Abortion is only one issue among many, but it is a very clear example that there IS a difference between Red and Blue. 

Bernie was not on the final 2016 ballot, but he DID sow deep division up to that point, just like Nader in 2000. In that respect, they are both the same spoiler. I can support Bernie’s agenda all day long, but when it comes to the final contest to vote against the GOP, I’m able to tell the difference in what needs to be done. 

It’s not too late to change course. We have a very important midterm election in six months, and a very important presidential election in two years. 

Will we FINALLY learn our lesson about the importance of voting wisely by then? 

Let’s hope so. Do your part and I will do mine. 

^ that ship sailed bro

Smoke em if ya got em

Nice Job Boomers ya fuckin Losers

> maybe so, Mike, but I'm angry

I hear you, OCLT. It's the in-fighting on the Left that renders them all but ineffective. Seems like a pretty simple thing to grasp, but a lot of otherwise intelligent folks just don't get it. They're blinded by their idealism when pragmatism is what's needed.

>They're blinded by their idealism when pragmatism is what's needed.<

More sanctimony than idealism, imo. 

But that's splitting hairs. 

>It's the in-fighting on the Left that renders them all but ineffective

In Congress, at least under Biden,  they've been remarkably united. Joe Manchin aside..

Don't forget Kyrsten Sinema. And the divisions exist outside of Congress in the trenches too, as can be seen in this thread.

True.

Those  divisions  the Democratic party are coming from voters who don't  identify as Democrats and prefer the "Independent" moniker. They don't appear to  care if the Democrats lose. The same ones that perpetuate the myth that "both parties are the same"

 And then there's the "division" in the  GOP where some  identify as "libertarians" or "Independents" - but typically vote for the GOP candidate. 

Some people still don't understand the stakes in a 2- Party system  and fail to recognize that their actions are enabling fascism to take hold. 

We need to turn out a massive vote in six months to put more Blue in the Senate, if only to finally make Joe Manchin irrelevant. I am beyond tired of seeing that scumbag in the news blocking everything. And he Ioves that power and loves the attention. Giving the Dems at least more than 53-55 seats in the Senate will nullify Manchin and Sinema, and then the filibuster could finally be removed.

Maybe this will be enough to mobilize people to come out and vote. Probably not.

Dems let voting rights go down the toilet without a fight and now this.  At least republicans fight for what they believe in and make sure they don't lose. Hearing dinosaur Schumer excoriate the repubs yesterday was just another pathetic example of a dollar short and day late. But lets just keep playing by the rules....

Oh and black support for the dems is going down the hill big-time. 

Democrats are feckless and impotent. More blue votes won't fix a party that flat out refuses to play for keeps.

>And he Ioves that power and loves the attention.<

and the money his family makes from coal. don't forget the money.

Remind me again what the Democrats stand for? quick...in bullet points.

3,2,1.... (wishy washy good stuff?)

How come I don't constantly read about health care? tax related stuff? infrastructure? environment? cyber defense? foreign policy? 

Haven't heard anything I can put my finger on but forgiving student loans, maybe...

and enough of the "Build Back Better" double speak

what's the mater with the word "fix"? Short and to the point. People understand it. Hell, people don't understand what infrastructure is.

How about: "We're gonna fix 10 bridges in each state by 2024, red tape and environmentaal regulations be damned." And put  big sign next to each one to remind drivers who did it.

The Democrats are a mess, agreed 

How come I don't constantly read about health care? tax related stuff? infrastructure? environment? cyber defense? foreign policy? 

The current administration talks about all of those things and have tried to address Infrastructure, "tax related stuff," environmental issues constantly only to be shut down by the Republicans and Machin/Sinema. All of those topics were touched on in the Infrastructure deal as well as separate pieces of proposed legislation. Yesterday Biden gave a speech at Javelin missile factory and has been repeatedly harping on the need for the US to manufacture semiconductor domestically and has a proposed bill to address cyber security. Today he is signing an executive order on Quantum Computing standards in an effort to keep the US in the lead. All of this stuff is out there, but like during the Obama administration the Republicans manage to block everything requiring legislative approval leaving executive orders as the only path to get stuff done, and that is very limited.. This is not how government was intended to work.

I'm sorry, but if all you hear about is student loans it's because you aren't paying close enough attention. Admittedly you have to look for this stuff because our media today doesn't bother to report on anything that isn't sensationalism. However, to suggest that the current administration isn't focused on climate change and all the other things you reference is not accurate.

At least republicans fight for what they believe in and make sure they don't lose

The Republicans are mostly effective at doing nothing and stopping things from getting done. What they have been effective it is slamming through Federalist Society approved judges that are setting about the path of reversing the last 80 years of progressive legislation. And Tax cuts, that's what they have been good at.

How about: "We're gonna fix 10 bridges in each state by 2024, red tape and environmentaal regulations be damned." And put  big sign next to each one to remind drivers who did it.

Joe Biden tweet:

One in five miles of our roads and major highways — and 45,000 bridges — are in poor condition. It’s not just unacceptable — it’s flat-out dangerous. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal will change that.

How can he be any more clear and direct than that?

what's the mater with the word "fix"? Short and to the point. People understand it. Hell, people don't understand what infrastructure is.

Government history is replete with stupidly namned bills......

Big Blue can and must be improved, absolutely. 

But DURING that process, Big Red only gains more ground unless they are voted down in sufficient numbers.

It is a sad but clear reality: Anyone opposed to GOP rule needs to vote Blue for Congress and President races. 

Otherwise, what we are seeing will continue and get worse. Because the fundamentalist fascists are not going away on their own.

JD Vance is now their candidate in Ohio. Will enough Blue voters defeat him by voting for Tim Ryan? Are we paying attention to that key race among others?  

Let’s sure as fuck hope so.

GOP/Fascist's propaganda gets all the attention. It's neater and more simplistic I suppose which leads people to view Democrats as messy.

it's amazing what small group of like minded determined people can do when properly motivated.

GOP/Fascist's propaganda gets all the attention. It's neater and more simplistic

"The Radical Left Agenda" are favorite words of Republicans nationally. The slogan says absolutely nothing, yet absolutely everything to the right wind dings. And it sure is seat and simplistic......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mgzZ0Jg3-4c

Good morning, Gilead!  God is great!  And now The Weather:

However your husband says it is.

> Susan Collins is straight up lying

No doubt, but her constituents might give her a pass because Maine has a fairly low abortion rate. They're #31 out of 50.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/abortion-rates-by-state

Brett, Neil and Amy straight up lied during their confirmation hearings.
 

Perjury

>to suggest that the current administration isn't focused on climate change and all the other things you reference is not accurate.<

OR

>The current administration talks about all of those things and have tried to address Infrastructure, "tax related stuff," environmental issues constantly. All of those topics were touched on in the Infrastructure deal as well as separate pieces of proposed legislation. Yesterday Biden gave a speech at Javelin missile factory and has been repeatedly harping on the need for the US to manufacture semiconductor domestically and has a proposed bill to address cyber security. Today he is signing an executive order on Quantum Computing standards < blah, blah, blah, I'm asleep.....

So which is it? Are Dems gonna be focused on a few memorable issues that can be summed up on a bumper sticker or do you need a paragraph to explain numerous obtuse issues along with excuses why nothing gets done?

I get what you're saying, but according to the chart above, more (young) people need to vote and if you want to provide incentive to vote Democratic, you'd be better off keeping it simple. Very simple. And focused. And repeat it ad nauseam, until everyone 'knows" those three issues like the back of their hand. This is the Kardashian / cell phone generation, right?

Something like: Democrats fix roads. Democrats increase wages. Democrats add doctors. Whatever it is. 

Not some long rambling list of good stuff that only college-educated, literate folks can understand and relate to.

Add in some psychological comfort food jargon like safety, security, and strength and maybe someone will actually remember why being Democratic might be beneficial to them. Not to others -- that's socialism - explain why it's good for them. 

It starts with an effective message.

> Whatever it is.

A chicken bong in every pot?

^ in the morning, will the "average" potential votor remember the phrase, "Building a wall to stop Mexican rapists" or "Signing an executive order on Quantum Computing standards."

I mean, maybe if you told someone "Democrats stop spam," that would work, but what the fuck are Quantum Computing Standards? (retorical question).

Mike - with the bird flu circulating, chicken jokes are no longer allowed per the Committee to Ostracize Average Citizens.

> Committee to Ostracize Ostrichize Average Citizens

Fixed that for you.

>>

Brett, Neil and Amy straight up lied during their confirmation hearings.
 

Perjury<<

Their positions have evolved since then.

Progress

Eliminating rights for women ain't progress. And they were chosen for the courts because of their commitment to overturn a precedent and lied under oath. 
 

changing one's position to enable basic human rights  is evolution. 

Well then by all means throw the book at 'em!

Democrats Love Birds

that might sway a bunch of people to like Democrats if that was a known issue -- maybe they'd even vote for one

I'll settle for impeachment- and in the meantime time add more honest justices to restore balance 

The judges obviously cannot be charged with perjury, because they were not asked and could not have been asked to say exactly how they would rule on any given case. They can say at a hearing that they have this or that opinion about this or that issue TODAY, but they can’t be asked to state how they will rule on any cases. And the judges know that, and the Senators know that. It’s all for the cameras, and nothing the judges said about what they thought about Roe AT THAT TIME cannot be held against them when they change their minds and rule a different way. Trust me, those people know how to avoid committing real perjury. 

Those hearings are always dog and pony shows for the cameras. We know that. When Trump said he would appoint judges who would overturn Roe, people needed to believe him. Because he was talking to HIS base. And guess what? Now, Trump and Mitch McConnell are both bigger heroes to the Right than ever. They promised killing Roe, they delivered. I see this helping them in the next elections. Unless way way way more people vote Blue. I know we’re tired and worn down from this, but it’s not over. We still need to vote.

But... Hillary’s emails. 

Hillary, Hunter, Huma...

They promised killing Roe, they delivered.  <<<

Not yet.

> Committee to Ostracize Ostrichize Average Citizens

Funny, I thought that, too, but didn't post. Well done, Mike.

“Not yet”? 

Roe is dead. All the uproar about this leaked draft is only further emboldening the Right. After all of the machinations needed to put those judges on the bench, if you think that Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, or Barrett are going to suddenly change course and uphold Roe in the final opinion... think again. This story is over. 

It only sets us further back to not acknowledge defeat in this round. We lost. Time to prepare for the next round, which is in 6 months for the midterm election for a stronger Senate. If anyone doesn’t like this 50-50 Senate, you really won’t like Mitch McConnell being in control again. I can promise you that. The longer people refuse to vote Blue, the longer this shit will get worse. 

If I tell you this everyday and you read it all over and you start hearing it around -- you WILL believe it by the midterms.

Possibly vote Dem because you are looking for some reason to pull the lever. Because who doesn't like birds? 

So easy to remember. No stress involved. Inclusive of pet owners, hungry people, and sportsmen.

Some Democrats love birds a little too much.

..

Pop quiz in the morming

I've got a bird....for the bird hater group :)

Decent crowd for a hastily called rally at the Utah Capitol last night. About an equal amount of people on the right of this pic you don't see. (I was going for the mountains.)

Christian God on Abortion:

Numbers 5:11-22

Test For An Unfaithful Wife

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah a of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse —“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

(from FB, so it has to be true!)

^ I can't even read this.

God supports abortion after all....  who'd a thunk

(myself, i'm a polyathiest, as there're thousands of gods I don't believe in)

Don't know what the fuss is all about. No one I know has been aborted.

Haaaahaaaaahaaaaaa Noodler Noodler Noodler, never thought you'd be the one to spread horseshit in the zone, but I guess there's a 1st time for everything.

Nowhere I repeat Nowhere in the Bible are miscarriages mentioned, period. You been FB'd dude. And judit I'd say I'm also surprised at you, but I'm not. What you're grasping at (in a futile way to discredit religion) is the topic of women adulterers and the spooky rituals them kooky ass Jews were into.

But just for arguments sake, I see what you're aiming at,,, well that ain't the first or last time Jesus stood up for what is right and went against The Father and that old testament hogwash. New T is the way kids. 

Do you know anything about Magdalene or the Women At The Well ? Maybe you can give em a read since you seem to have the time.

Readers Digest Version - after listening to these women pour their hearts out about how bad they've lived their lives,, Jesus consoled and told em, " ok I understand, now go and sin no more". Miss Mary Magdalene was so moved she followed Him till his dyin day.

Jesus is The Man folks, took the ball from his dad and ran our way with it. Don't care to see it ? That's too fuckin bad

You crazy New Testament people are idolaters, and you rewrote the first few commandments to suit your Roman god fantasies. Good thing that thee's no hell for you to go to for that sin.

Do we now also need a religion folder?

We need a fake folder for phonies like Raz.

Looks like Ras is a good ole cherrypicker of Bible stories and quotes. Like so many who profess the Bible as the Word of God then just use the parts they agree with and ignore or disregard the rest.  I'll give him/her credit in that they seem willing to throw out the whole Old Testament.  Jesus calling out the Old Man; now that is a pretty interesting view of things. Which God is right? Oh I forgot, there is only one God!

And certainly the above scripture is talking about inducing a miscarriage in an unfaithful wife, so yes miscarriage is mentioned in the Bible. Just not Ras' Bible.  And purposely inducing a miscarriage sure sounds a lot like abortion to me. So the above scripture seems to be God giving instructions to have unfaithful wives have forced abortions if with child.  If I'm wrong with my take on the passage, then educate me and don't just throw bullshit.

ras spitting biblical scripture and expletives together now in the same post

lol how reverent

lemme guess? Catholic?

I just don't like right wing religious fanatics imposing their crazy religious beliefs on the rest of the country, talk about taking a heaping dump of hypocrisy on the constitution...    

Zappa had it right, we're becoming a fascist theocracy!   

> Jesus is The Man folks, took the ball from his dad and ran our way with it.

Besides shaking my head, I'm wondering what kind of ball Jesus took from his dad (who was Joseph, right?). Basketball? Football? Bocce ball?

Greek Orthodox until the Italians won the war, then long live the pope of catholocynicism, which lead to a protest (protestant),  and from there it's a mess!  Want polygamy, mormon, want slaves, southern baptist, on and on, you'd almost think man invented god more than god inventing man...

it's all horseshit to me, and shouldn't be the basis of any legislation...  man manipulating man for person wealth, power, and control, yep!  Some divine search for the truth, total laugher....  nobody's as good at surpressing truth as the church(s), and republicans....

Let’s please just vote Blue in six months. Please? Pretty please? 

It's a bullshit lie!

~Phil Lesh~

Disclaimer:  This quote is free of context.

I really don't care what a magic man in the sky riddled to a desert tribe 5,000 years ago. Also the people who wrote the constitution agree with me on this one, because they wrote it right in there in very clear language. Separation of Church and State. If you want to live your life by the very unclear rules of the magic man in the sky go for it, but I don't have to.

I also don't care about the Republican's new found interest in "science" with fetal heart beats and blah blah blah. The rule has always been viability which we have conservatively put at 24 weeks. All that means is you don't have to have a reason before 24 weeks. After 24 weeks it is a decision between the women and her doctor. 

I hope people realize that most of the Republican laws put in place to limit abortion have no exception for rape, incest, human trafficking, OR THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

Methodists are very easy to get along with. 

Ras isn't very bright is he.

"Believe in jesús full stop or too fucking bad" is such an inclusive and wholesome bible-based message, eh? I'll politely spare you my beliefs in place of a request for you to keep yours to yourself as well. Freedom From Religion! (especially here - and I don't GAF if Phil oftentimes says god bless America at his shows)

wait....back up a sec....Jesus was real?

Which one? The dark skinned one with Mediterranean features or the whiter one with long hair? Or the one that sorta looks like Jerry Seinfeld with a guitar? 

And how come if he was resurrected he never went to South America or showed up in Asia or North America or Alaska? He could fly, right? I'm thinking he didn't like the cold.

And what's with the Holy Ghost? Is he a god? This whole trinity thing plus Mother Mary is so confusing. 

Tiz a foolish thing to get into a worthwhile discussion with folks who have zero knowledge of the subject.

Less Than Zero actually.  You are Jesus illiterate, now there's sumthin to be proud of. 

Must kinda suck not 'getting' the music you listened to your entire life. 

How y'all feel when Jerry's layin down a nice Sisters And Brothers ? Or when Bob's acreaming out I Am ?  Must really suck listening to Jorma + Jack hit ya in the head with a red hot I See The Light and not understanding what it's about. Hell I bet you even try n sing along to Good Shepherd or I Am The Light Of The World,, but low and behold your hearts just not in it. Poor heathens.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

― Epicurus 

Enjoy the ride. Despite all of the potential faith possible that still doesn't make it true/factual,  nobody alive really knows what's on the other side. You take your path and I'll take mine - no lectures, shaming, etc. 

...where's Bry-guy anyway? Or is that You, Raz? LOL

>Less Than Zero <

Raz, I think Kimock and Anton used that as an album title already, sorry. And you should know it's impossible to debate faith-related topics with someone because you get a lot of, "Well, it's true because some old man told me when I was a little kid." Not much to talk about after that.

But if you ever want a lesson on comparative religion or talk about the power of spirituality and myth...catch me on a rainy day when I have nothing else going on. 

You can explain the Father Son Ghost  OneGod thing to me because even the Pope himself stumbles on that one. Blessings.

>>but low and behold your hearts just not in it. Poor heathens.<<

The word is lo; referring to "Look, See!" "Behold!"

For Christ's sake, open a bible and read it for yourself.

Alan I am no master by any means, my wife's the biblical scholar in the family but Comparative Religions was one of the 2 subjects that actually taught me anything in HS. The other being American Indian History. But fuck yeah I'm game for discussion. I'm game for anything that shines light on a subject, pun intended. 

Muhammad, not a fan. Too into killing and pedophilia.

Jesus, ah yeah, I lika HeyZoos, amazing man, an inspiration worth knowing about.

< open a bible

Lol

That Bible is such a tough fucking harsh read tho, that's why I think, no, I Know any of you with an ounce of 'wana know more' in you would enjoy the Chosen. Sheds a lot of new light,  sews the old + new T together in an awesome way. It's not confusing mysterious or crypic, it shows He's one of us really. 

Ok what else ya got ? 

The Mystical Authoritarian strikes again!

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/toilet-shattered-by-lightning-strik...

Lighting destroys toilet!

It isn't about knowledge of the bible or the life of jesus. It's about the pandering shithole salesmen and saleswomen who got elected and use jesus as a sales pitch in order to deliberately deny half the adult population health care.

Ya know the GOP  aren't going to stop with preventing women's rights to abortion and reproductive rights. It will be eliminating access to contraception, making Gay Marriage illegal again..

And yes, the GOP is the party of the kooky Jesus people. 

I've mentioned this before and now seems like an appropriate time again. My son believed something and argued with us to get us to agree with him; if we didn't agree he put forth another (or the same) argument again and say we didn't agree because we didn't understand. And again. We understood what he was saying, we didn't agree with him. He's 42 and some of that logic still lingers in him.  

Someone else's religious beliefs (should) have no bearing or control on my health or welfare. It seems obvious, and yet...

To be fair, the kooky Jews also tend to go GOP.

In such small numbers compared to the Evangelicals and they hardly have the same influence over the GOP, but yeah Jared Kushner et al can go to hell

I think that around 70% of American Orthodox Jews vote Republican. But you're absolutely right, there's only around 12 of them.

speaking of lightning strikes in the bathroom.....

Does anyone not take a shower during a thunderstorm?  Sounds like a old wives' tale, but if you do, you coud get electricuted if lightning strikes the house's plumbing. Happens.

One more thing to worry about.

< Hopefully Vermont will soon become the first state to have a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing a woman's right to choose.

Ct beat ya to it BK. Proud Nutmegger here.

Watch: Governor Lamont Signs First-in-the-Nation Reproductive Rights Legislation
https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2022/05...

Ras, it must kinda suck flogging others with your faith while not understanding the first thing about the Christian virtue of humility.

Tiz a foolish thing to get into a worthwhile discussion with folks who have zero knowledge of the subject.

Less Than Zero actually.  You are Jesus illiterate, now there's sumthin to be proud of. 

Must kinda suck not 'getting' the music you listened to your entire life.

Bill Classifying Abortion as Homicide Is Advanced by Louisiana Lawmakers

The State Legislature in Louisiana advanced a proposal this week that would classify abortion as homicide, going further than anti-abortion measures in other states by making it possible for prosecutors to bring criminal cases against women who end a pregnancy

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/louisiana-abortion-bill-homicide.html

Good thing a neoliberal, corporate democrat, like Clinton, didn't win.... amirite?

VT already has it protected by law. I think we'll be the first to have it in our Constitution.

That's nice, Brian. Too bad that doesn't help folks in Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi,  etc.

 >>>>>But you're absolutely right, there's only around 12 of them.

(orthodox Jews)

Actually quite a few more.

Over 500,000.

The Louisiana law will do more damage to the economy of New Orleans than Katrina did. 

VT already has it protected by law. I think we'll be the first to have it in our Constitution.

As soon as the Republicans gain control of congress and the oval office it won't matter. Unless the political winds change Abortion will be illegal in this country by 2025.

>>Actually quite a few more. Over 500,000.

I know. It's a minuscule population compared to the evangelical Christians. Plus, the majority of them live in firmly blue states, so they can't do too much damage.

>>As soon as the Republicans gain control of congress and the oval office it won't matter.

Unless there's an amendment to the US Constitution, it can't be outlawed in the entire country. I don't see that happening, but who knows?

>Unless there's an amendment to the US Constitution...

No shot.

 >...it can't be outlawed in the entire country...<

Sure it can

>...it can't be outlawed in the entire country...<

Sure it can>>>

> not likely

Unless there's an amendment to the US Constitution, it can't be outlawed in the entire country. I don't see that happening, but who knows?

If Federal prohibit's it than Federal law trumps state law. Federal Law vs State Constitution? I'd imagine that goes to the Supreme Court and kind of takes the country down the path that lead to civil war in the 19th century. this country is headed in a dangerous direction no matter how you slice it. Divisions are only going to get worse....

^Exactly. But which side ultimately "wins" remains in flux. Clearance Thomas was recently quoted along the lines of current Cannabis laws/expanding state's legalization efforts being unsustainable and "untenable" so who knows how that chip ends up too. Keep in mind that Pence & Co, etc detest all things Cannabis as well.

^Yet here we are in a somewhat widely dispersed current situation across many states with regard to Cannabis, guns, abortion,  sex marriage, etc that soon may also be increasingly in play. People should remember that ALL things are essentially on the ballot when they vote. So much for "settled law" too, apparently.

I'm late to the party, but so thankful for this thread, illegalizing abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes it more dangerous.

Idaho has become increasingly reliable in their race to the bottom with a cluster of other shit hole states. You've been warned if you were not already aware. These mfrz are beyond loony toon crazy.

"After Roe decision, Idaho lawmakers may consider restricting some contraception"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/roe-decision-idaho-lawmakers-may-194843888.html

^^^ ...then what next...will the Republicans outlaw sex w/ contraception in our prudish, sex-starved nation?  ;) 

(There has been media coverage in the past year about how Americans are way behind other countries in terms of frequency of sex.)

Spot on "she called herself Lil" > Overturning Roe does not stop abortions, it just outlaws safe abortions, especially in late-term or when health of the mother is in danger. 

It will be interesting to see if red states will expand free healthcare to cover potential increases in single moms with new babies.

"It will be interesting to see if red states will expand free healthcare to cover potential increases in single moms with new babies"

Hopefully that is in jest. Abortion rates between "legal" and "illegal" countries are relatively consistent/the same so we know what is going on, sadly.

 if Rs are going about banning contraception and abortion state by state, doesn't that mean they should be ready to support an increase in babies?  That support should include universal healthcare, because how will the low-income moms with multiple kids be able to hold down a job that offers good healthcare coverage ?

When are we going to start castrating men who rape?

These jagoffs would not even expand medicare when it made good $ense so this move is definitely off the market.

> When are we going to start castrating men who rape?

I'm guessing you mean the blade, and not just chemical castration?

>>>>>how will the low-income moms with multiple kids be able to hold down a job that offers good healthcare coverage ?

R's don't care.

Could have an interesting situation here in Utah (and in other states). Folks are surmising the Native American tribes can make their own laws for their reservations. 

Could more medical clinics be popping up on the Res? 

^That's simple to counter. Just pass a law which prohibits non tribal members from seeking such medical care on native land. The enforcement mechanism could be similar to Texas, where citizens can report such violations.

Contraception and same sex marriage are next.

See the difference between the parties?

Fucking idiots. 

You live next door to trump voters. Change them. 

^You live next door to trump voters. Change them^

Do you believe the dumb-ass, nonsense that you post?

They are not changing. They are open and honest about who they are and their intentions. 

It's the people saying, "both parties are the same " and "the lesser of two evils is still evil" who don't seem to be listening...or maybe they're just too damn stupid to understand. 

McConnell Says National Abortion Ban ‘Possible,’

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/mcconnell-says-national-abortion-ban-...

Mississippi Guv Leaves Door Open For Birth Control Ban

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/morning-memo/mississippi-governor-birth-co...

This may have been stated already in this thread but Bush2/Rove significantly started to capitalize on the commonalities (single-issue and culture war voters) on the religious right which became a or the key piece of the republican base. On the flip side, dem voters are not even close to being that united on anything, instead getting hung up on personalities and the people they can't stomach voting for, etc.

As an aside, Clarence Thomas said over the weekend that people these days are fighting too much about court decisions they don't like...I would like to remind him that his wife needs a good lesson on that with elections.

As he knows nothing about govt and had no background, trump was used by Mitch (and other Republicans who need his signature) for the useful idiot that he was/is.

"McConnell obsessed over pitching conservative jurists to Trump so he could fill up the Supreme Court: report"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcconnell-obsessed-over-pitching-conservative...

>>>On the flip side, dem voters are not even close to being that united on anything,

This is true, but if dems had the political advantages of the Republicans it wouldn't matter. Democrats are at a huge disadvantage because we cluster on the coasts and in large cities. If we had majority rule in this country none of this would be an issue, but we don't we have minority rule and it is only getting worse. 

>>>"McConnell obsessed over pitching conservative jurists to Trump so he could fill up the Supreme Court: report"

This is true but McConnell doesn't give a fuck about abortion. The Republicans had the Senate, the House, and the Presidency for the first two years of Trump. The only thing they passed was tax cuts for billionaires and corporations. That is all McConnell cares about. Abortion is just a way to get the rubes to vote against their economic interests. 

If, if, if, votes, votes, votes. Throw in some census restrictions, gerrymandering, and outright shady shit (like "delaying" the Garland SCOTUS nomination hearings) and Mitch gives a real Fuck about power and packing courts with conservatives.

The right will always win becuase they don't mind cheating - "it's a feature not a bug". If the left cheats to win they will have lost the moral high ground, such as it is.

An unsolvable dilemma.

^are you joking? 

Go out and vote Democratic in national elections. 

We aren't talking about any of this if people would have elected Clinton in 2016. A literal Supreme Court seat was on the ballot, plus another 2. But Clinton and the dnc cheated Sanders, Clinton is a neoliberal, corporate democrat, or whatever other self-righteous bullshit excuse people used.

Surfdead has it right unfortunately. If the Left stoops to the level of the Right, they become what they despise. Then we're all the same.

My excuse is California. 

> trump was used by Mitch (and other Republicans who need his signature) for the useful idiot that he was/is.

And Putin, of course.

Fuck Mitch

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/mitch-mcconnell-acknowledges-a-n...

Always thought The Sex Pistols hit the nail on the head as regards to abortion when they recorded "Bodies":

 'Think about it. Don't be callous about a human being, but don't be limited about a thing as 'morals' either. Because it's immoral to bring a kid in this world and not give a toss about it.'

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Bodies_(Sex_Pistols_song)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yzFFtBsl5ps

>>>>>^are you joking?  Go out and vote Democratic in national elections. 

Always have, intend to continue.

I'm 70 and have never missed an election.

Doesn't mean I can't grouse about the slant of the playing field.

Balancing things out a little. LOL

I'm just tryin' to have me some fun. - John Prine

>My excuse is California<

And yet you frequently make the argument that the lesser of two evils is still evil.

Are you trying to remind people? 

Shame them?

Or do you just like showing off your collection of epstein pics?

Are you trying to blame me instead of Anthony Weiner for Hillary's loss? 

^Not you exclusively, i blame all idiots who make the lesser of two evils argument

 And the idiots who argue that the two parties are the same. 

I don't give a fuck about Anthony Weiner. There was a  Supreme Court seat at stake. People who purport to be progressive should understand the importance of the Supreme Court and vote accordingly.