maybe the dirty blood thirsty terrorist cult of hamas shouldn't have broken the ceasefire on 10/7 and committed unspeakable atrocities. just because hamas miscalculated and is now being destroyed does not make them the victim. very simple solution - return the hostages. And the UN has blood on their hands as the dirty terrorists were working with it
I'd like to see both the Palestinian and Israeli people renounce any leadership that sanctions and perpetrates hostile acts. Both the Hamas and Netanyahu's governments are thugs and need to be dismantled to enable a practical and peaceful two state solution where neither state preys on the territory and people of the other.
As there are a substantial number of fundamentalist whackjobs in both territories, I'm not holding my breath.
considering the actions of hamas, I'm pretty relaxed. My family in Isreal not so much. But for hamas there would be no dead children - take it up with the terrorists
What's the argument you're making here, Bob? Because Hamas attacked Israel (despite Israel's intel that something was afoot), then it fell on Israel to kill all those Palestinian children?
Hamas Health Ministry has given the 31k number and it is generally accepted. They don't, however, say how many are Hamas combatants. Israel estimates about 13,000. I'm going to generally believe both Hamas and Israel on these numbers. As the war went to the ground the death count declined. That has been verified fact. It also stands to reason that the ratio of civilians to combatants also shifted.
I did read an article today by a statistician at U Penn. I'm not great at math, but he had all sorts of plot charts showing deaths of men, women, and children, and he doubts the validity of the numbers Hamas is putting out. I guess they are far too consistent over time. He said we'll never know. Maybe he's right, maybe not, but Im going with 31k, 13k being combatants.
Mike, Bibi needs to go in order for there to be Peace, that's a generally agreed upon thing from all sides. Well, except for MAGA who really do want to "finish the problem" and would provide Bibi with even more unfettered support than he's getting now.
Israel did not start this war. Bibi did not start this war. That's on HAMAS and the "crew" supporting the terrorist organization.
Hamas is in no hurry to see this war end either. So just removing Bibi from the equation won't achieve peace in the region. But it's certainly a start.
you have 1 group of lightly armed people that literally see no way out and another that has one of the most sophisticated and well funded, (thanks for your tax dollars), armies on the planet.
if hamas were disbanded today, Israel would all of the sudden stop their behavior, (that of the last 40+ years)? and like take settlers out of occupied territories, make a viable state and treat the palestinians like humans? sure.....
what hamas did is inexcusable and disgusting. so are the actions of the STATE of Israel.
feel free to call names if it makes you feel better.
>The leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, acknowledged in an interview last year that his group received $70 million in military assistance from Iran. According to a State Department report from 2020, Iran provides about $100 million annually to Palestinian terrorist groups, including Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command.
They have launched 12,000 rockets in 5 months. That's not nothing.
Objectively, a whole hunk of Gaza's historical problems are directly related to Hamas. That's why there was a civil war within Gaza, which Hamas won. And absolutely, Israel owns its share.
Hamas doesn't want a free Gaza. Their reason for being is not to have a Palestinian state, and they've done very well off it. Those 3 leaders who live in Qatar have combined wealth of $11 billion. That's all stolen aid money. They're not freedom fighters, and that's a big problem. They need this shit. Christ, they turned down a sweetheart ceasefire. Why?
It is baffling to me that almost nobody has any expectations of Hamas to do anything. At this point, to end the war and move forward there will have to be expectations of Hamas, and they will need accountability. Painting them as downtrodden freedom fighters and treating them as such is a mistake.
And because words and facts matter, had they been carpet bombing the most densely populated land on earth, with the ordinance they've used, there would be a million dead.
But I get that carpet bombing fits the narrative of Israel being an evil, genocidal state that is hellbent on killing all Palestinians. It's ye another good slogan that isn't quite true.
Again, war sucks. Carpet bombing shouldn't be happening in any war, and whether it's happening in this war is up for debate.
March 14, 2024
By air, land, and sea. That’s how Israel and its allies have tried to sidestep Hamas terrorists to deliver (as of this publication) more than 303,000 tons of humanitarian aid to Palestinian civilians since the Hamas terror attack on Israel that killed over 1,200 people and saw 253 taken hostage.
"We are now trying to flood the area with supplies," IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told reporters on March 13.
More than 16,400 trucks have carried aid into Gaza. Additionally, Israel has welcomed the U.S., France, Belgium, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, and Jordan to air-drop more than 1,200 packages of aid, mostly in northern Gaza. And this week, Israel Defense Minister Yoav Gallant fully supported the U.S.-led international initiative to build a temporary seaport on Gaza’s coast to deliver additional aid to the territory.
>How do you see this realistically ending, Turts?<
i really don't know bk. all i see is further escalation and spread of the conflict....
look, i care about what happens there because it has an impact on us here at home and abroad. we keep making more terrorists...and subsidizing it.
i don't care to debate the semantics of what is or what is not "carpet-bombing". it's one of the worst displays of aggression i have seen in my lifetime and it makes me absolutely sick.
the far right of both israel and the usa WANT this to escalate because they will be saved...god help us all...
i'm super worried about the absolute slide into fascism here in the usa. if fuck face wins...? that will not help the middle east either...
one thing we ALL seem to agree upon is that Bibi needs to be removed. maybe we can start there.
i do not wish to fight against anyone here and have no hatred towards anyone jewish or the concept or state of israel. i need to say this again. we all want peace.
You know the evangelicals are drooling, watching this and dreaming of the rapture. If this doesn't end and Trump becomes president, it's a different ballgame.
I think they should just keep blowing each other up. Ukraine and Russia as well. without US tax dollars, of course.
I don't follow any of this except for my random lurks on the zone. They're gonna do what they're going to do.
I do have question for you experts of war. How does a trapped population that needs a bunch of humanitarian aid air dropped, continue to get thousands of rockets to launch?
I do have question for you experts of war. How does a trapped population that needs a bunch of humanitarian aid air dropped, continue to get thousands of rockets to launch?
most of them are homemade rockets afaik. stuff most of us could make easily on our own if given instructions and materials. not high tech weaponry like we provide to isreal. "because they could be made into weapons" is actually a pretty common excuse for isreal to deny shipments of aid into gaza
>>it's one of the worst displays of aggression i have seen in my lifetime and it makes me absolutely sick.
Ptetty sure it makes most of us here sick.
As for "worst," our 600k civilian kills in Iraq and Afghanistan was pretty terrible. That doesn't even count the millions that died of disease and starvation. The half a million dead civilians in Syria is crazy.
What's the argument you're making here, Bob? Because Hamas attacked Israel (despite Israel's intel that something was afoot), then it fell on Israel to kill all those Palestinian children?
My argument is very simple and based on common sense - there would be no dead children [or other] if hamas did not breach the cease fire on 10/7 - just like the US would not have dropped two hydrogen bombs on Japan if they didn't attack us. we had a right to defend ourselves and ent the war just like Isreal does.
I like what Turtle stated and how he stated it at his 8:37pm post yesterday.
Understanding that someone else's pain is just as valid as your pain, even though your viewpoints may differ - without any name calling or any attempt to belittle - is an understanding that grown-ups display.
I don't consider myself a grown-up, but i like to read all different viewpoints and consider from there.
One thing we can all certainly agree on is this: We all want it to STOP!!
Mike, when you asked my sources were you wondering where I get my news on the war? If so, I'll tell you:
For factual and unbiased I read the AP. It's also where I loop back to for confirmation or denial of BS. It's a goot starting and finishing point.
I then go to BBC.
Then CNN.com. They seem to have moved on from the war and focus on the Houthis.
Then I delve into the propaganda places to see what schmaltz they're laying down. Jpost has plenty of bullshit, but it also does a really good job of hitting on the most up to the minute stuff. It's also pretty easy to tell the opinion pieces and the propaganda / bias in the "news" pieces. Then I hit al Jazeera, which started out in October only slightly biased, and has now become so bullshit it's laughable. The tipping point a few months ago was in a "news" article when they said, "The Zionists chose to start a war against Gaza..." I guess one can spin it that way, but Hamas had an awful lot to do with it.
Headlines on Ha'aretz tell a bit of a story, but I'm not paying for the subscription.
Here's a current headline on al Jazeera: ‘Massacre’: Israel forces attack crowds waiting for aid in Gaza, killing 21 Palestinian officials call latest assault ‘premeditated’ as people seeking humanitarian supplies increasingly targeted.
And the same incident on Jpost: IDF releases video of armed Palestinian shooting at Gazans while waiting for aid As the trucks carrying the aid entered, the gunmen continued firing while they looted the trucks. In addition to the shooting, civilians were also found to be run over by the trucks.
The reality is that some will believe anything the Hamas propaganda machine puts out, and some will believe anything the Israeli machine puts out. Too many have stopped seeking the truth so they can make independent decisions. I guarantee that a few that read this post are saying to themselves, "Israel is lying," even though they have no idea (and we probably will never know).
So, yesterday I referenced a study that questioned the validity of Hamas' casualty data based on statistical analysis. Although I didn't link to it for 2 reasons. First, it was published in Jpost, and second the author is clearly Jewish, and probably Israeli. As I mentioned, I took it with a grain of salt because it really did seem like a propaganda piece.
Interestingly, Jpost updated the article a bit later with a rebuttal from another Israeli statistician, who questioned the validity of the data on many grounds.
Here we are in the "age of information" and it's almost impossible to get good information. Sure, we can get snapshots of certain events, but they don't tell the big picture.
The other day on the nightly news there was an incredibly sad piece about a Gazan family that had undergone IVF for years, finally had twins, and they were killed by a bomb. It's heart-wrenching. The other side of my brain went to the fact that they had IVF. As people are screaming that Israel has been genocidal for decades and has had full control of Gaza, doesn't allowing IVF disprove that? I don't know, it's all so fucked up.
> Here we are in the "age of information" and it's almost impossible to get good information.
Which is why it's important to survey a number of news sources to determine where they overlap, and where they don't.
> it's all so fucked up
That's the response of a rational mind. Too bad the participants can't seem to see it that way, but blood vengeance is a completely emotional response.
I'm biased against Reuters for a silly reason. Back in high school (almost 40 years ago) I did a research project on the CIA and learned that half their budget is spent on propaganda and feeding false news. They're not allowed to fuck with US sources so they do Reuters, which the AP and UPI then pick up. Like I said, it's a silly reason to discount them.
Generation after generation wanting to wipe the other out... the assholes who perpetuated Oct 7th had most of their families killed by Israelis before that attack, and many of the Israeli leaders have had family members killed by Arabs before that attack, and back and forth it goes. Generations of blame, revenge, slaughter... so devastatingly sad! Can Israel eliminate Hammas, and then what follows it? Can the Arabs eliminate Israel, and then what follows? So much loss, so much hatred, and it never stops... does eliminate sound too close to genocide (since language seems to be important in these parts)
Does one side take the high ground more than the other, to this I say yes! As a gay man, I'd feel quite comfortable in Israel (most of my family has been there many times). Would I feel comfortable in many Arab countries, absolutely not! But that's where the west vs middle east arguments get thornier. There's many countries I wouldn't feel safe in. I know lot of people who support tRump, I don't know of anyone who supports Netanyahu... but I root for civilians throughout the world... look at Haiti right now, my brother has been a Doctor who helps with pediatrics there for many decades, many stories could be told. My mom was strip searched by Israeli soldiers during the intifada period, again, many stories.
When does it stop? How can it stop? Putin vs Europe, 3rd world dictators, resource wars, corporate crime and greed... while the planet and the poor suffer. It's intolerable, how can a down the street nobody become a makes a positive change somebody? How can we put an end to world violence, when we can't even deal with MAGA... and what happens if tRump gets back in office? Ukraine is toast, what Euro country will be next, or how many?
Rant over, time to work in the garden, it's such a lovely day outside, if one turned of media, it's like nothing was going on at all... sucks to follow world events, let alone care about them...
It won't end in our lifetimes, but it will slowly return to the status quo while we all move our attention to what ever other disaster looms in the near future and then it will flare up again just like it has every time for the last 70 years. I mean the only times in recorded history there has been anything approaching peace in that region is when one side or another completely wipes out the other side and occupies it for a few centuries. It's hard to find a more blood soaked piece of land in the world.
But in the short term I'm all for trading Bibi for the hostages. I really wish Hamas would make the offer just to show what a coward he is. The man makes Trump look a like a tower of virtue.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bobstar
maybe the dirty blood thirsty
maybe the dirty blood thirsty terrorist cult of hamas shouldn't have broken the ceasefire on 10/7 and committed unspeakable atrocities. just because hamas miscalculated and is now being destroyed does not make them the victim. very simple solution - return the hostages. And the UN has blood on their hands as the dirty terrorists were working with it
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Relax bob
Relax bob
The post is about dead children
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
I'd like to see both the
I'd like to see both the Palestinian and Israeli people renounce any leadership that sanctions and perpetrates hostile acts. Both the Hamas and Netanyahu's governments are thugs and need to be dismantled to enable a practical and peaceful two state solution where neither state preys on the territory and people of the other.
As there are a substantial number of fundamentalist whackjobs in both territories, I'm not holding my breath.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bobstar
considering the actions of
considering the actions of hamas, I'm pretty relaxed. My family in Isreal not so much. But for hamas there would be no dead children - take it up with the terrorists
I do agree that the Netanyahu needs to go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Hey Jill, where are the 7+
Hey Jill, where are the 7+ million Heebs going to go when you give Hamas the river to the sea?
What a dumbass slogan.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Personally I just can't wait
Personally I just can't wait for the hostages to be returned
so then this can all be over with
simple
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> But for hamas there would
> But for hamas there would be no dead children
What's the argument you're making here, Bob? Because Hamas attacked Israel (despite Israel's intel that something was afoot), then it fell on Israel to kill all those Palestinian children?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
...
...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
no, it's totally justified to
no, it's totally justified to respond by killing 31K civilians because 1300 were killed, because bad guys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
FREE EVERYTHING!!
FREE EVERYTHING!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
ONE LOVE
ONE LOVE
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Add "& Bibi & Crew" to that
Add "& Bibi & Crew" to that meme, Nanc, and I'm down with it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Facts are important. There
Facts are important. There are not 31,000 dead civilians. That's just a fact. It doesn't mean anything more than just that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Where are you getting your
Where are you getting your info from, Brian?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Hamas Health Ministry has
Hamas Health Ministry has given the 31k number and it is generally accepted. They don't, however, say how many are Hamas combatants. Israel estimates about 13,000. I'm going to generally believe both Hamas and Israel on these numbers. As the war went to the ground the death count declined. That has been verified fact. It also stands to reason that the ratio of civilians to combatants also shifted.
I did read an article today by a statistician at U Penn. I'm not great at math, but he had all sorts of plot charts showing deaths of men, women, and children, and he doubts the validity of the numbers Hamas is putting out. I guess they are far too consistent over time. He said we'll never know. Maybe he's right, maybe not, but Im going with 31k, 13k being combatants.
Again, I'm only talking data here, nothing more.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
In other news, it looks like
In other news, it looks like Hamas has put forth a new ceasefire deal and it will go to Israel's war cabinet tomorrow.
Maybe we can all agree, at the very least, that is would be huge.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Mike, Bibi needs to go in
Mike, Bibi needs to go in order for there to be Peace, that's a generally agreed upon thing from all sides. Well, except for MAGA who really do want to "finish the problem" and would provide Bibi with even more unfettered support than he's getting now.
Israel did not start this war. Bibi did not start this war. That's on HAMAS and the "crew" supporting the terrorist organization.
Hamas is in no hurry to see this war end either. So just removing Bibi from the equation won't achieve peace in the region. But it's certainly a start.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> Im going with 31k, 13k being combatants
So, about 18k civilian deaths, with about 2/3 of those being women and children. That's still disgraceful when compared to Israeli casualties.
> Bibi did not start this war. That's on HAMAS
Yes, it is on HAMAS, but Bibi is responsible for the way out-of-proportion response of his government.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Yes, it's all disgraceful.
Yes, it's all disgraceful. Let's hope there's a fucking ceasefire and it holds.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
It's fucking war. Isn't war
It's fucking war. Isn't war always 'out of proportion' ? As it's been said repeatedly that's why you don't fucking start a war.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>with about 2/3 of those
>>with about 2/3 of those being women and children.
I think a more correct term is "non combatants." There are non Hamas men in that group. Still disgraceful.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
a war requires 2 armies.
a war requires 2 armies.
you have 1 group of lightly armed people that literally see no way out and another that has one of the most sophisticated and well funded, (thanks for your tax dollars), armies on the planet.
if hamas were disbanded today, Israel would all of the sudden stop their behavior, (that of the last 40+ years)? and like take settlers out of occupied territories, make a viable state and treat the palestinians like humans? sure.....
what hamas did is inexcusable and disgusting. so are the actions of the STATE of Israel.
feel free to call names if it makes you feel better.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Hamas is HEAVILY ARMED.
Hamas is HEAVILY ARMED. They govern GAZA and absolutely do have an ARMY. A little reality please.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
they have rockets, guns and
they have rockets, guns and that's about it.
or am i missing an airforce and tanks/artillery?
>But facts aren't your strong suit, T. <
as critical thinking is not yours....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
You say War requires 2 armies
You say War requires 2 armies.
Clearly Hamas has an Army. And is heavily armed. Facts matter.
Oh, you say, but Hamas' army doesn't have the same types of weapons at their opposition. Why does that matter?
>what hamas did is inexcusable and disgusting
great. I'm getting tired of folks making excuses for Hamas and being unable to admit that HAMAS started this horrible war
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
https://www.washingtonpost
Iran provides Weapons and training to the HAMAS Army.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/09/iran-support...
>The leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, acknowledged in an interview last year that his group received $70 million in military assistance from Iran. According to a State Department report from 2020, Iran provides about $100 million annually to Palestinian terrorist groups, including Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
They have launched 12,000
They have launched 12,000 rockets in 5 months. That's not nothing.
Objectively, a whole hunk of Gaza's historical problems are directly related to Hamas. That's why there was a civil war within Gaza, which Hamas won. And absolutely, Israel owns its share.
Hamas doesn't want a free Gaza. Their reason for being is not to have a Palestinian state, and they've done very well off it. Those 3 leaders who live in Qatar have combined wealth of $11 billion. That's all stolen aid money. They're not freedom fighters, and that's a big problem. They need this shit. Christ, they turned down a sweetheart ceasefire. Why?
It is baffling to me that almost nobody has any expectations of Hamas to do anything. At this point, to end the war and move forward there will have to be expectations of Hamas, and they will need accountability. Painting them as downtrodden freedom fighters and treating them as such is a mistake.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
>. Why does that matter?<
>. Why does that matter?<
because they are using them to carpet bomb a trapped civilian population???
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
How do you see this
How do you see this realistically ending, Turts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
And because words and facts
And because words and facts matter, had they been carpet bombing the most densely populated land on earth, with the ordinance they've used, there would be a million dead.
But I get that carpet bombing fits the narrative of Israel being an evil, genocidal state that is hellbent on killing all Palestinians. It's ye another good slogan that isn't quite true.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Again, war sucks. Carpet
Again, war sucks. Carpet bombing shouldn't be happening in any war, and whether it's happening in this war is up for debate.
March 14, 2024
By air, land, and sea. That’s how Israel and its allies have tried to sidestep Hamas terrorists to deliver (as of this publication) more than 303,000 tons of humanitarian aid to Palestinian civilians since the Hamas terror attack on Israel that killed over 1,200 people and saw 253 taken hostage.
"We are now trying to flood the area with supplies," IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told reporters on March 13.
More than 16,400 trucks have carried aid into Gaza. Additionally, Israel has welcomed the U.S., France, Belgium, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, and Jordan to air-drop more than 1,200 packages of aid, mostly in northern Gaza. And this week, Israel Defense Minister Yoav Gallant fully supported the U.S.-led international initiative to build a temporary seaport on Gaza’s coast to deliver additional aid to the territory.
https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitaria...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
And to be fair and factual,
And to be fair and factual, the new "humanitarian aid Israel" policy is about 24 hours old. They're not getting saint points on it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
>How do you see this
>How do you see this realistically ending, Turts?<
i really don't know bk. all i see is further escalation and spread of the conflict....
look, i care about what happens there because it has an impact on us here at home and abroad. we keep making more terrorists...and subsidizing it.
i don't care to debate the semantics of what is or what is not "carpet-bombing". it's one of the worst displays of aggression i have seen in my lifetime and it makes me absolutely sick.
the far right of both israel and the usa WANT this to escalate because they will be saved...god help us all...
i'm super worried about the absolute slide into fascism here in the usa. if fuck face wins...? that will not help the middle east either...
one thing we ALL seem to agree upon is that Bibi needs to be removed. maybe we can start there.
i do not wish to fight against anyone here and have no hatred towards anyone jewish or the concept or state of israel. i need to say this again. we all want peace.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You know the evangelicals are
You know the evangelicals are drooling, watching this and dreaming of the rapture. If this doesn't end and Trump becomes president, it's a different ballgame.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
I think they should just keep
I think they should just keep blowing each other up. Ukraine and Russia as well. without US tax dollars, of course.
I don't follow any of this except for my random lurks on the zone. They're gonna do what they're going to do.
I do have question for you experts of war. How does a trapped population that needs a bunch of humanitarian aid air dropped, continue to get thousands of rockets to launch?
I miss mean Tweets at least those were hilarious.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
I do have question for you
most of them are homemade rockets afaik. stuff most of us could make easily on our own if given instructions and materials. not high tech weaponry like we provide to isreal. "because they could be made into weapons" is actually a pretty common excuse for isreal to deny shipments of aid into gaza
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>it's one of the worst
>>it's one of the worst displays of aggression i have seen in my lifetime and it makes me absolutely sick.
Ptetty sure it makes most of us here sick.
As for "worst," our 600k civilian kills in Iraq and Afghanistan was pretty terrible. That doesn't even count the millions that died of disease and starvation. The half a million dead civilians in Syria is crazy.
And that's just in the last 20 years.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
When rats are confined into a
When rats are confined into a too-crowded space, they turn on and attack one another.
People know, consciously or unconsciously, that Earth is too crowded with humans.
So they are programmed to do the same as the rats.
We're just trying to adjust the population.
We should try birth control instead.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bobstar
> But for hamas there would
> But for hamas there would be no dead children
What's the argument you're making here, Bob? Because Hamas attacked Israel (despite Israel's intel that something was afoot), then it fell on Israel to kill all those Palestinian children?
My argument is very simple and based on common sense - there would be no dead children [or other] if hamas did not breach the cease fire on 10/7 - just like the US would not have dropped two hydrogen bombs on Japan if they didn't attack us. we had a right to defend ourselves and ent the war just like Isreal does.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Isreal - sounds like "is real
Isreal - sounds like "is real"
Israel - an actual country
simple.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> just like the US would not
> just like the US would not have dropped two hydrogen bombs on Japan if they didn't attack us
Not a good analogy, imo. They are many, myself included, who see the use of nuclear weapons as grossly immoral, and not just a little insane.
Also, the first hydrogen bombs weren't tested until a few years after WWII.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ismelltoadsmoke
I like what Turtle stated and
I like what Turtle stated and how he stated it at his 8:37pm post yesterday.
Understanding that someone else's pain is just as valid as your pain, even though your viewpoints may differ - without any name calling or any attempt to belittle - is an understanding that grown-ups display.
I don't consider myself a grown-up, but i like to read all different viewpoints and consider from there.
One thing we can all certainly agree on is this: We all want it to STOP!!
Love to All
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Mike, when you asked my
Mike, when you asked my sources were you wondering where I get my news on the war? If so, I'll tell you:
For factual and unbiased I read the AP. It's also where I loop back to for confirmation or denial of BS. It's a goot starting and finishing point.
I then go to BBC.
Then CNN.com. They seem to have moved on from the war and focus on the Houthis.
Then I delve into the propaganda places to see what schmaltz they're laying down. Jpost has plenty of bullshit, but it also does a really good job of hitting on the most up to the minute stuff. It's also pretty easy to tell the opinion pieces and the propaganda / bias in the "news" pieces. Then I hit al Jazeera, which started out in October only slightly biased, and has now become so bullshit it's laughable. The tipping point a few months ago was in a "news" article when they said, "The Zionists chose to start a war against Gaza..." I guess one can spin it that way, but Hamas had an awful lot to do with it.
Headlines on Ha'aretz tell a bit of a story, but I'm not paying for the subscription.
Here's a current headline on al Jazeera: ‘Massacre’: Israel forces attack crowds waiting for aid in Gaza, killing 21 Palestinian officials call latest assault ‘premeditated’ as people seeking humanitarian supplies increasingly targeted.
And the same incident on Jpost: IDF releases video of armed Palestinian shooting at Gazans while waiting for aid As the trucks carrying the aid entered, the gunmen continued firing while they looted the trucks. In addition to the shooting, civilians were also found to be run over by the trucks.
The reality is that some will believe anything the Hamas propaganda machine puts out, and some will believe anything the Israeli machine puts out. Too many have stopped seeking the truth so they can make independent decisions. I guarantee that a few that read this post are saying to themselves, "Israel is lying," even though they have no idea (and we probably will never know).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> were you wondering where I
> were you wondering where I get my news on the war?
Yep. It seems like you bring some more nuanced data to the discussion, like the breakdown of civilian vs. military casualties.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
So, yesterday I referenced a
So, yesterday I referenced a study that questioned the validity of Hamas' casualty data based on statistical analysis. Although I didn't link to it for 2 reasons. First, it was published in Jpost, and second the author is clearly Jewish, and probably Israeli. As I mentioned, I took it with a grain of salt because it really did seem like a propaganda piece.
Interestingly, Jpost updated the article a bit later with a rebuttal from another Israeli statistician, who questioned the validity of the data on many grounds.
Here we are in the "age of information" and it's almost impossible to get good information. Sure, we can get snapshots of certain events, but they don't tell the big picture.
The other day on the nightly news there was an incredibly sad piece about a Gazan family that had undergone IVF for years, finally had twins, and they were killed by a bomb. It's heart-wrenching. The other side of my brain went to the fact that they had IVF. As people are screaming that Israel has been genocidal for decades and has had full control of Gaza, doesn't allowing IVF disprove that? I don't know, it's all so fucked up.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> Here we are in the "age of
> Here we are in the "age of information" and it's almost impossible to get good information.
Which is why it's important to survey a number of news sources to determine where they overlap, and where they don't.
> it's all so fucked up
That's the response of a rational mind. Too bad the participants can't seem to see it that way, but blood vengeance is a completely emotional response.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Spot on bk
Spot on bk
ill add Reuters and npr
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'm biased against Reuters
I'm biased against Reuters for a silly reason. Back in high school (almost 40 years ago) I did a research project on the CIA and learned that half their budget is spent on propaganda and feeding false news. They're not allowed to fuck with US sources so they do Reuters, which the AP and UPI then pick up. Like I said, it's a silly reason to discount them.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
I don't think awareness is
I don't think awareness is silly
it all factors into the news triangulation somehow
kinda like how everyone already knows npr are a bunch of wokes
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
At least they pair their woke
At least they pair their woke agenda with solid journalism and a high-level of integrity. The same can't be said of most of the anti-woke media.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Faye Dunaway
sure hope any of you
sure hope any of you religious types can go and pray without fear of retribution and can make it into your holy place unscathed
FREE PALESTINE
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Bizarre post, on many levels.
Bizarre post, on many levels.
At this point, anyone who screams "from the river to the sea" isn't looking for peace. They are looking for a broader and more devastating war.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
El Nino's YouTube thread made
El Nino's YouTube thread made me stumble across the original. Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtin in all their glory:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Israel is bombing three
Israel is bombing three countries right now, how much "broader" does Israel intend to get in this war on civilians? Just wondering.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
Well, to play devil's
Well, to play devil's advocate Dise, how many countries are Jihadist terrorist organizations active in?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
Generation after generation
Generation after generation wanting to wipe the other out... the assholes who perpetuated Oct 7th had most of their families killed by Israelis before that attack, and many of the Israeli leaders have had family members killed by Arabs before that attack, and back and forth it goes. Generations of blame, revenge, slaughter... so devastatingly sad! Can Israel eliminate Hammas, and then what follows it? Can the Arabs eliminate Israel, and then what follows? So much loss, so much hatred, and it never stops... does eliminate sound too close to genocide (since language seems to be important in these parts)
Does one side take the high ground more than the other, to this I say yes! As a gay man, I'd feel quite comfortable in Israel (most of my family has been there many times). Would I feel comfortable in many Arab countries, absolutely not! But that's where the west vs middle east arguments get thornier. There's many countries I wouldn't feel safe in. I know lot of people who support tRump, I don't know of anyone who supports Netanyahu... but I root for civilians throughout the world... look at Haiti right now, my brother has been a Doctor who helps with pediatrics there for many decades, many stories could be told. My mom was strip searched by Israeli soldiers during the intifada period, again, many stories.
When does it stop? How can it stop? Putin vs Europe, 3rd world dictators, resource wars, corporate crime and greed... while the planet and the poor suffer. It's intolerable, how can a down the street nobody become a makes a positive change somebody? How can we put an end to world violence, when we can't even deal with MAGA... and what happens if tRump gets back in office? Ukraine is toast, what Euro country will be next, or how many?
Rant over, time to work in the garden, it's such a lovely day outside, if one turned of media, it's like nothing was going on at all... sucks to follow world events, let alone care about them...
Zone on Phreaks!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ismelltoadsmoke
levity /lĕv′ĭ-tē/
noun
Humor, merriment, or a lack of seriousness, especially when inappropriate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUQBQ-xlTs&t=2
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
>>> kinda like how everyone
>>> kinda like how everyone already knows npr are a bunch of wokes <<<
I mostly watch NPR Newshour and Viva for news, though NPR not everyday. Please keep reporting, folks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Ethnic cleansing as a real
Ethnic cleansing as a real estate development strategy
https://www.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-lauds-valuable-gaza-real-e...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Yeah, he and the other
Yeah, he and the other religious nutters thing they'll get a new Riviera in Gaza.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Gentrifiers
Gentrifiers
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
It won't end in our lifetimes
It won't end in our lifetimes, but it will slowly return to the status quo while we all move our attention to what ever other disaster looms in the near future and then it will flare up again just like it has every time for the last 70 years. I mean the only times in recorded history there has been anything approaching peace in that region is when one side or another completely wipes out the other side and occupies it for a few centuries. It's hard to find a more blood soaked piece of land in the world.
But in the short term I'm all for trading Bibi for the hostages. I really wish Hamas would make the offer just to show what a coward he is. The man makes Trump look a like a tower of virtue.