Judge rules that the Comma made all the difference, at least in this case

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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oxford-comma-defenders-rejoice-judge...

 

..Because a comma does not appear after "shipment," U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit Judge David Barron reasoned it is unclear if "packing for shipping or distribution" is one activity or if "packing for shipping" is separate from "distribution." 

"The drivers further contend that, although they do handle perishable foods, they do not engage in 'packing' them," Barron wrote in his opinion. "As a result, the drivers argue that, as employees who fall outside Exemption F, the Maine overtime law protects them." 

Ian Samuel, Climenko Fellow and Lecturer on Law at Harvard Law School, says at least one prominent legal text, written by Justice Antonin Scalia and his co-author, Bryan Garner, recommends that "courts should not rely much if any" on text omitting an Oxford comma because some legislative style guides follow newspaper style, which often doesn't use the comma. 

In Maine, the guide for drafting legislation warns against using an Oxford comma, as Barron notes in his opinion. 

"Although authorities on punctuation may differ, when drafting Maine law or rules, don't use a comma between the penultimate and the last item of a series," the rule reads. 

However, it also warns that if a list is ambiguous, a sentence should be restructured. 

"The reason the lack of a comma matters here is because it's not clear if the overtime statute is supposed to exempt packers of food — those whose work involves the 'packing for shipment or distribution' of perishable foods (which milk is) — or if it covers both packers (people who 'pack for shipment') and drivers, whose work is the 'distribution' of the foods," Samuel said in an email to NBC News...

I clean pools. 

We had no idea you were a pool boy, Slacker! thanks for sharing. 

 

Do you get paid overtime?

i assume he gets paid the whole amount at the end of the day.

I try not to work more than seven hours a day. The cost of after school child care ain't cheap. 

 

Right, but in your contract is there a stipulation for overtime? Is the comma in the correct place? Just asking since it's relevant to the topic at hand; if you read the link you'd understand - he who cleans pools, aka Poolboy. 

 

 

And yes, childcare is indeed expensive. How much do you pay currently? I assume you know to apply for the childcare tax credit at tax time. A good tax accountant can help you out and pay for itself. 

Contract? With the customer? I don't know or care. That's for the repair guy. 

If I don't want to work, I don't. Last time i worked overtime it was for work past 40 hours. 

Eats, Shoots & Leaves

Yes, we take all credits given. 

We currently pay around $450/month. 

lol, China!

 

>A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

So, punctuation really does matter, even if it is only occasionally a matter of life and death.

Now, we all know the basics of punctuation. Or do we? A look at most neighborhood signage tells a different story. Through sloppy usage and low standards on the internet, in e-mail, and now text messages, we have made proper punctuation an endangered species.

In Eats, Shoots & Leaves, former editor Truss dares to say, in her delightfully urbane, witty, and very English way, that it is time to look at our commas and semicolons and see them as the wonderful and necessary things they are. This is a book for people who love punctuation and get upset when it is mishandled. From the invention of the question mark in the time of Charlemagne to George Orwell shunning the semicolon, this lively history makes a powerful case for the preservation of a system of printing conventions that is much too subtle to be mucked about with.

Why would anyone consciously deny the serial comma? 

Commas, commas, and more commas! 

 

>The debate over commas is often a pretty inconsequential one, but it was anything but for the truck drivers. Note the lack of Oxford comma — also known as the serial comma — in the following state law, which says overtime rules do not apply to:

The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;

(2) Meat and fish products; and

(3) Perishable foods.

Does the law intend to exempt the distribution of the three categories that follow, or does it mean to exempt packing for the shipping or distribution of them?

Delivery drivers distribute perishable foods, but they don’t pack the boxes themselves. Whether the drivers were subject to a law that had denied them thousands of dollars a year depended entirely on how the sentence was read.

If there were a comma after “shipment,” it might have been clear that the law exempted the distribution of perishable foods. But the appeals court on Monday sided with the drivers, saying the absence of a comma produced enough uncertainty to rule in their favor. It reversed a lower court decision.

In other words: Oxford comma defenders won this round.

“That comma would have sunk our ship,” David G. Webbert, a lawyer who represented the drivers, said in an interview on Wednesday.

The language in the law followed guidelines in the Maine Legislative Drafting Manual, which specifically instructs lawmakers to not use the Oxford comma. Don’t write “trailers, semitrailers, and pole trailers,” it says — instead, write “trailers, semitrailers and pole trailers.”

The manual does clarify that caution should be taken if an item in the series is modified. Commas, it notes, “are the most misused and misunderstood punctuation marks in legal drafting and, perhaps, the English language.”

“Use them thoughtfully and sparingly,” it cautions.

Legal history is replete with cases in which a comma made all the difference, like a $1 million dispute between Canadian companies in 2006 or a very costly insertion of a comma in an 1872 tariff law.

The debate over commas is often a pretty inconsequential one, but it was anything but for the truck drivers. Note the lack of Oxford comma — also known as the serial comma — in the following state law, which says overtime rules do not apply to:

The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;

(2) Meat and fish products; and

(3) Perishable foods.

Does the law intend to exempt the distribution of the three categories that follow, or does it mean to exempt packing for the shipping or distribution of them?

Delivery drivers distribute perishable foods, but they don’t pack the boxes themselves. Whether the drivers were subject to a law that had denied them thousands of dollars a year depended entirely on how the sentence was read.

If there were a comma after “shipment,” it might have been clear that the law exempted the distribution of perishable foods. But the appeals court on Monday sided with the drivers, saying the absence of a comma produced enough uncertainty to rule in their favor. It reversed a lower court decision.

In other words: Oxford comma defenders won this round.

“That comma would have sunk our ship,” David G. Webbert, a lawyer who represented the drivers, said in an interview on Wednesday...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?smid=fb-...

>Why would anyone consciously deny the serial comma? 

WIKI: In English language punctuation, a serial comma or series comma (also called an Oxford comma or a Harvard comma[1]) is a comma placed immediately before the coordinating conjunction (usually and or or) in a series of three or more terms. For example, a list of three countries might be punctuated either as "France, Italy, and Spain" (with the serial comma), or as "France, Italy and Spain" (without the serial comma).[2][3][4]

Opinions among writers and editors differ on whether to use the serial comma. In American English, a majority of style guides mandate use of the serial comma, including APA style,[5]The Chicago Manual of Style, The MLA Style Manual, Strunk and White's Elements of Style,[6] and the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual. In contrast, the Associated Press Stylebook and the stylebook published by The Canadian Press for journalistic writing advise against it. It is used less often in British English,[7] but some British style guides require it, including The Oxford Style Manual.[8] According to The Oxford Companion to the English Language, "Commas are used to separate items in a list or sequence ... Usage varies as to the inclusion of a comma before and in the last item ... This practice is controversial and is known as the serial comma or Oxford comma, because it is part of the house style of Oxford University Press."[9] Some use it only where necessary to avoid ambiguity,[10] in contrast to such guides as Garner's Modern American Usage, which advocate its routine use to avoid ambiguity.[11]

> Why would anyone consciously deny the serial comma?

Because I can, Floops.

Commas are for the most part unnecessary as this sentence itself should​ illustrate. Get my drift? Of course you did and without the help of any intra-sentence puctuation.

Me, Myself, and I approve of the serial comma. 

i was always taught not to use the last, or serial comma, when writing a list of items. Those bastards said no need before the last item.  That includes junior high, high school and college.

Someone close to me is an editor and they use AP style - which I found to be totally weird. I'd say if you can understand it, and maybe allow for creative license in informal writing, all styles should be acceptable.  That includes no comma, the serial comma and the hyphen.  I never thought about the legal stuff. 

huh. the things you learn on viva la phil zone

Thanks to the someone at PZ for posting this helpful infographic previously.

 

WheresThatThingeeGoNow.jpg

 

Let's eat grandma

That's a great band name 

Sure, in informal conversational writing, and the later works of Stephen King, the comma is largely unnecessary. 

But if you're writing law, plans, etc., you better damn well be clear at all times. And, if you want to always be clear, use it. 

Oh, and why should conjunctions do the work of punctuation marks? 

But I agree, here on the ZOne, all is possible.