Is it okay to make it uncomfortable for Nick Fuentes to dine in public?

Do anti abortion protesters have a right to make clinic patients uncomfortable?

No one ever said free speech didn't include the consequences. If you can't handle the blow-back, stay in your bubble.

They did more than make him uncomfortable, they threw something at him. Is that okay?

He should have contacted the police.

he's gotta leave sometime

whatever happens happens

>They did more than make him uncomfortable, they threw something at him. Is that okay<

Yes. Fuck those fascists. 

For real fuck that garbage maggot in its feedhole 

There is zero correlation between speaking up and out to this waste of space and women getting Healthcare. 

Zero. 

Next. 

I mean fucksake

A male bringing up his devil's advocate point with that?

You're better than that, brian

Nick Fuentes should never feel safe in public.  

Back to Mommy's basement, troll.

Not sure why DJ Khaled didn't put him through that window.

Given that the movement he identifies with and promotes is organized around genocide, it doesn't seem surprising that he would encounter violence in public spaces

Dude Needs THE CRAP Beaten Out Of Him !

they threw something at him. Is that okay? <<<

YES

> they threw something at him. Is that okay?

Is there another video clip? Seems like Fuentes was the only doing the throwing in the video FOM posted.

Had to google him.  Free speech and free reactions. Know your audience. 

Apparently another couple threw ketchup at Fuentes first.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/white-nationalist-nick-fuen...

Gay folks harassed by Proud Boy threats and lukewarm police response to the threat.  Domestic fash terrorists knock out a county electrical grid because they are precious about drag story time?

No, I do not give a fuck about the nazi.

I was hardly ding devil's advocate. However much a piece of shit he is, nobody has a right to throw stuff at him. They absolutely have a right to make him feel uncomfortable.

However, like it or not, that basic reasoning goes both ways. Pieces of shit also have a right to make people going into a clinic uncomfortable. Sorry Jill, you may not like a male pointing that out, but at the core it's the same concept of free speech. We don't get to choose who has it, and for what issues. If that ever happens, this country is done. 

 Does anyone else see a bigger picture here? The violent rhetoric in this thread alone is concerning. The guy is a piece of shit with abhorrent views. That's not a license for violence.

Meanwhile, somewhere in North Carolina, 40,000 people went without power because a bunch of Christoterrorists shot up a power station to stop a drag show.

Its weird being the odd person out on this, simply by saying free speech is a double edged sword. It's even weirder at how many think violence over ideas is okay. 

> nobody has a right to throw stuff at him

Throwing stuff at Fuentes is assault and/or battery. People who attack people like Fuentes have become the thing they claim to despise.

Preemptive strike exemption for fascists.

The both sides-ing of "intolerance" is frequently laughable.

freedom of speech in isn't a "double edged sword" at all. It just means the government can't put you in jail for running your mouth.

that's the whole thing. That's it.

> Preemptive strike exemption for fascists.

I'm pretty sure that's the same kind of thinking Trump used when he posted yesterday that we should tear up the Constitution. Yeah but we know better.

I don't agree it's that clear-cut, Bss. If it was, there wouldn't have been thousands and thousands of 1st Amendment cases and decisions. People want to say what they want to say. They don't always like the shit other people want to say. Maybe it's more of a paradox than a double edged sword.

There are limits on speech too, like the example of not yelling fire in a crowded theater, and hate speech too. And that's where the First Amendment really isn't so simple. Who defines what's obscene or hateful?

inciting violence and making threats of violence are not protected speech. Just as defamation and kiddie porn aren't expressions of free speech either.

of course I understand the purpose of these amendments here is to protect the minority population. As a majority will certainly protect its own interests without any need for such trivial laws to begin with

I believe nazis on parade, nazis hanging at the in-n-out, nazis gathering at (name the place) is an incitement to violence in itself. That physical presence is a manifestation of violence. Others feel differently.

And that presence - that organizing or gathering space should be denied. Physically if necessary (but throwing ketchup is weak sauce)

the first amendment covers a ton of ground, but I think the congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech part is otherwise pretty straightforward

There's the legal freedom of speech, and then there's the cultural. In this day and age the latter is more complicated. Who can say what, when? Who gets "cancelled" for what they say? It may be legal to say, but should I say it?

For instance, someone somewhere decided it's not okay for a cis male to draw a comparison between verbal harassment at a fast food joint  and a woman's health clinic. Evidently, it's a bad thing to do. Why? That's today's culture. Someone decides what's right and wrong, and that's the new and random standard. "It's okay for them to say, but not you, simply because of how you were born."

https://youtu.be/452XjnaHr1A
 

that's the way he wants it 

These fascists are not seeking a robust and honest dialogue, Brain. They are disingenuous when they engage. They have shown a willingness, I'd say eagerness, to commit violence against those they see as their enemy.  Fuck them.

>someone somewhere decided it's not okay for a cis male to draw a comparison between verbal harassment at a fast food joint and a woman's health clinic<

Verbal harassment for seeking health care vs verbal harassment for being a stochastic terrorist

This administration is punching fascism in the mouth. That's enough, right?

That's my point, Lumber. Verbal harassment is verbal harassment. Those dipshits do it because the legitimately believe that murder is occurring. Ultimately, people on all sides are getting harassed over difference of opinions. The, "but they're wrong so they deserve it," argument goes both ways.

I get your argument Brain, however,  the harassment, and threat of violence, is not limited to health clinics. There's also the recent threats to the lgbtq+ community, specifically drag shows.

Can you rationalize that one for me?

Slacker, you just sit back, relax, and let it all play out.

"I have the right to assault you because I don't like your politics, or don't like what I think your politics might be, or don't like the way you look, or how you are dressed, or......"

It's a slippery slope.

I can't rationalize any of it.

There's a huge difference between someone who says, "homosexuality is wrong" and the person that shoots up a club. Millions believe the former but don't act on it. One in a million does act on it.

Do we legislate (or violently fight) free speech because the fear of the 0.000001%?

I have to ask, had anyone heard of Nick Fuentes before this Ye thing?

>"I have the right to assault you because I don't like your politics, or don't like what I think your politics might be, or don't like the way you look, or how you are dressed, or...

It's a slippery slope<

^It sure is. 

But enough of this false equivalency. 

Trump meets with an unabashed bigot, very little push back.

Trump recently said that the constitution should be suspended,  very little push back

Trump coordinates an attempted coup, still the front runner for 2024 Republican nomination. 

These people are fascist 

There is no comparison 

I heard of him when he spoke at a Republican event that large marge was a part of along with atleast one other Republican member of congress or the senate, his buddy Milo is one of Bannon's boys 

>have to ask, had anyone heard of Nick Fuentes before this Ye thing<

Yes. 

It's not a false equivalency, Lumber. Trump is a piece of shit who will meet with anyone and say whatever he wants. Fuentes is a pice of shit who spews crap. You and I don't agree with them. There are plenty of people that think Biden (and orther Lefties) is a traitor, a commie, and is destroying the country. They believe it just as strongly as you do. It's an equal equivalency.

Have you ever punched any fascists, Lumber? 

https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/libs-of-tiktok-targeted-a-drag-show...

https://www.metafilter.com/197423/Lack-of-police-protection-shuts-down-C...

From the metafilter thread:

>>>there's the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club [left oriented espousing arming up]

By the way, this is the same group that Musk suspended from twitter, 2-days after the Club Q shooting, on exceptionally flimsy grounds (and allegedly by direct request from the voice behind the Libs of TikTok account), all while simultaneously reinstating numerous well-known fash trash accounts including that of literal, brazen neo-nazi Andrew Anglin.

Libs of tiktoc a day before the Club Q massacre:

some people believe it's okay harassing and assaulting fascists

other people just want to maintain a safe space for them

and when they finally came for me

I shook all their hands and told them I'd been arguing on the internet for their silly nazi rights this whole time...

Let's be honest, 90% of people here think it's okay to harass and assault fascists, but as long as someone else is doing it.

How many skinheads did you pop today?

>There are plenty of people that think Biden (and orther Lefties) is a traitor, a commie, and is destroying the country.<

Arguing that Biiden is a commie is pure ignorance. 

Republicans aren't arguing policy, it's all culture wars.

>Meanwhile, somewhere in North Carolina, 40,000 people went without power because a bunch of Christoterrorists shot up a power station to stop a drag show.

As long as the Constitution hasn't been "terminated", assault is assault is assault<

The right has embraced violence as a legitimate political tool.

Trump called for terminating the constitution,  very little push back. 

Republicans attempted a coup .

There is no comparison. 

You go ahead and talk about your criminal history, Slack. 

So I guess we have to wait for him to build the ovens in order for it to be OK to let him know that he isn't allowed out in public. You don't have the right to threaten people with violence that isn't free speech. It's not a slippery slope it's a line that we don't let people cross if we want to keep the freedoms we have. 

This is what he has said:

On a livestream episode, Fuentes “jokingly” denied the Holocaust and compared Jews burnt in concentration camps to cookies in an oven. 

"I don’t see Jews as Europeans and I don’t see them as part of Western civilization

segregation and policies in the pre-civil rights-era American South “was better for them, it’s better for us, it’s better in general.”

“If you are a White male zoomer, remember that the people in power hate you and your unborn children and they will try to genocide you in your lifetime.”

“To the people that have thrown out and disrupted our country. We are coming for you. Your days in power are numbered. You think you can replace us? You are wrong. We will replace you!...We are willing, ultimately, to die for our cause…And I don’t say that glibly, I am willing to die for this cause.” He added, “Do you want to know our secret? Our secret sauce? It is these young. white. men.”

“My overriding belief…is that God is real, Jesus Christ is God, and yet the country is run by people that don’t believe this, and don’t live by this. And we’ve talked about who they are, they are largely Jewish…We’ve got to save our country, tell the truth, and have Christian leadership.”

Fuentes responded to an audience member’s question about how to respond to his wife “getting out of line,” saying, “Why don’t you give her a vicious and forceful backhanded slap with your knuckles right across her face – disrespectfully – and make it hurt?...Just kidding of course…just a joke…I would never lay a hand on a women, unless she had it coming.”

Let's go back to abortion. People truly believe that it's murder and that harassing patients and staff may immediately save a life. Other than disagreeing that it's murder, how is it different than harassing fascists to save potential lives in the future?

^the fascist's goal is to fundamentally change our society, based on bigotry and oppression. 

A woman choosing to terminate her pregnancy will not fundamentally change our society. 

They absolutely believe that each and every abortion fundamentally changes our society, and that everything up to murdering providers is saving society.

This is what's scary to me: when any side says, "I'm right, you're wrong, and I have a right to quell you with violence."

Because abortion is murder is not a universal belief whereas it is a universal belief that genocide should not be supported 

 >This is what's scary to me: when any side says, "I'm right, you're wrong, and I have a right to quell you with violence>

The right has already accepted this premise, maybe you can talk them out of it.

But, but, but...

They believe that abortion is genocide. See how it's a cyclical argument.

Look, I get it, 98% of my mother's family was slaughtered in the Holocaust. In 1939 there were over 100 1st cousins. Five years later there were 2. As a 1st gen American and child of a Survivor, the perils of white supremacy are very, very real to me. The freedoms that this country affords are also very real to me, so I try to find that delicate balance. If those freedoms can be taken away for one, based on the whim of the majority, they can be taken away for all, and then I'm really fucked.

Schmucks like Fuentes have been spewing the same crap for millennia. Let them say it, and say it loud. That we we can all hear it and hate it. Until then, and to quote a not so great person, "stand down and stand ready."

The problem is that they are not just "spewing crap" anymore, there was a violent insurrection, a literal coup attempt, and a large portion of this country feels it was justified. 

>>>They believe that abortion is genocide. See how it's a cyclical argument.

What matters is if it is a universal belief not that some people believe it. Some people believe just about anything. If abortion is genocide was a universal belief there wouldn't be a debate. It would be illegal just like murder and genocide are illegal without any debate. 

Fuentes is actively working to create a world where his preferred genocide gets revived. There is universal condemnation about that view. Therefore, he does not get to eat in public. I think on the left we tie ourselves into knots with these arguments. You get to do just about anything. You don't get to advocate for genocide. It's a very clear line in my mind. He has been warned and yet he persists. That means he invites a world of consequences into his life. That fact that I'm not doing it personally makes no difference. I don't know what I would do if I saw him. I would have to cross that bridge when it happens, but I sure as hell don't lose any sleep over whatever other people decide to do to him no matter what that is. 

If half the country believes the work of Jan 6 was left undone, then it's not a universal belief that it was a violent and illegal insurrection.

That said, if a bus "accidentally" ran over Fuentes I wouldn't shed a tear.

>If half the country believes the work of Jan 6 was left undone, then it's not a universal belief that it was a violent and illegal insurrection<

Facts are facts. It was an attempted coup. I don't give a fuck if some fascist assholes refuse to acknowledge the facts. This isn’t a theoretical argument.

Regardless of their lies about January 6th, the right has accepted that violence is a legitimate political weapon.  Like i wrote, maybe someone can talk them out it.

He shouldn't be surprised.  His hateful speech draws in hate from all around. Hate attracts hate. If he's not too stupid to realize this, maybe this ketchup packet (this time) got his attention that his audience includes people who oppose his views. not just the back-slapping assholes who support his views and inflate his ego. 

If you're going on worldwide media to spew your hateful views, then a wise person might surround themselves with body guards and remove themselves from social situations. But he doesn't appear to be wise or intelligent, so let the Darwin Awards continue. It's not ok to initiate violence, but he made a conscious decision to be hateful on social media, so this is the life he has created for himself. His responsibility, no one else. Good luck with the many, many consequences to come.

-We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.-

- Robert Jones Jr. 

i am enjoying this discussion

yes i have known of this fuckface

i advocate strongly for his assassination

shit is going to get so much more fucked up

minority and women's marginalization are key to all these diouchenozzles retaining their illusion of power

imagine living in potential discomfort every time you leave your house? i have experienced verbal harassment countless times. as well as physical, and i never sued anyone over it. and none of those times was for entering a women's health clinic. they were still moments of vulnerability, and, as a private citizen, will make another point that fuentes, (the self hating latino let us point out also) is out there in the spotlight spewing his psychotic dangerous hateful rhetoric and straight up lies

you can keep arguing about the latitude and all encompassing blanket of free speech all day, i am still gonna categorize it as worthy of being said or not. societally or otherwise, i maintain this punkassbitch is asking for whatever he gets.

speech>>action is still ok with me when it is done to fascists. and it always will be.

whoever said they don't know what they would do?

i would confront him without a doubt. how? depends on the sitch. were i able to be his assassin? yes, please.

Can rich people do the violence since they have different laws and better lawyers? Actors moonlighting as assassins would make good movies. 

Alec Baldwin should be doing it as penance. 

xxx

xxx

We were just talking about how Alec Baldwin has never been seen again since he murdered that guy or lady whatever happened

>the self hating latino let us point out also<

Proclaimed Proud Boys leader, Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, is clearly not "lilly white" either. These guys are fkt up in so many different ways, with their race not being one of them. Sad and disturbing.

So, Fuentes and Tarrio probably want to be referred to as Latinx, right?

>>>>>it is a universal belief that genocide should not be supported 

Unfortunately not the case.

Is that chitty chitty bang bang?

>>>>>it is a universal belief that genocide should not be supported 

>>Unfortunately not the case.

Agreed - with 8 billion people that goes from Musk on one end to the stone age tribe members in the amazon on the other there are no universal beliefs. But genocide is bad - is as close as we get, which is why when people start toying with the idea that it is OK we need to stomp it out. 

Everyone should read The Banality of Evil

Arendt's book introduced the expression and concept of the banality of evil. Her thesis is that Eichmann (Nazi convicted of war crimes) was actually not a fanatic or a sociopath, but instead an extremely average and mundane person who relied on clichéd defenses rather than thinking for himself, was motivated by professional promotion rather than ideology, and believed in success which he considered the chief standard of "good society". Banality, in this sense, does not mean that Eichmann's actions were in any way ordinary, or even that there is a potential Eichmann in all of us, but that his actions were motivated by a sort of complacency which was wholly unexceptional. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#:~:text=Eichmann%20i....

It's a chilling book.

Obedience?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Excuse my ignorance, but I've never heard of this guy before this thread. But you're telling me that there is a white nationalist named fuentes?

yeah, i didn't hear of him before all of this. 

fuentes...isn't that other dick a torino/torres?

some self-loathing sobs...

Taping a kick me sign on his back oughta do it.

>>>you're telling me that there is a white nationalist named fuentes?

There is also one named Kanye West

I feel like Britney Spears should be appointed as Ye's conservator. 

Interesting that MTG just denounced Fuentes. I get the feeling she is trying to re-brand herself and has decided that going full Nazi isn't the smartest move. No need to say it out loud. 

That said I think she is angling for a leadership position in the House and she will get it. 

^MTJ's "pivot" is very likely tied to wannabe Speaker, Kevin, trying to appease her with a committee spot in hopes that the rest of the far-right House caucus would also come along and support his bid. She'll probably eventually fold with the wind as AZ's Andy Biggs again today announced that he plans to challenge McCarthy for the Speaker role after losing out in an informal bid to do so in mid-Nov. Shit.Show.Circus.

>Interesting that MTG just denounced Fuentes

I want to ride those narrow gauge trains. 

Fundraising is an opulent career. 

^I've canvassed for greenpeace and pennpirg, opulent is not an adjective I'd use to describe working conditions. 

My sister in law is a lobbyist in DC. Not sure if she's retired now. She made some big bucks.

speaking of nick fuentes, seems he's not good with the ladies:

https://youtu.be/eaz55gyJ8CQ?t=142