Interesting dilemma, not sure how to proceed
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Lance minimum goad Newberry
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I'm a teacher by trade, but I have also worked in another profession for many years, one in which I have achieved a fair amount of success and rose to various managerial positions, at one point almost making that my full-time trade.
But two years ago the particular managerial position I developed and held for twelve years was slowly but systematically eliminated and most of my authority stripped by a new young operations manager who had her own ideas, mostly consisting of her thinking that she knows everything and anyone older is of the past and knows nothing.
Our site was consistently one of the top grossing locations for the company nation-wide but that didn't matter to her and I'm not the only one who felt her wrath, in fact to one degree or another almost no one escaped her blade; she is quite the package.
Having my position eliminated was not OK with me but ultimately I figured I had my time and was actually ready in many ways to back off, but because I still love the business and the particular work site and I wanted to stay involved with both I stepped back and assumed a much lesser position. I found that after so many years of every problem being my problem I actually enjoyed working there as a "lowly schmo" without any of the responsibilities/headaches, and was pretty comfortable with my semi-retirement.
But then...
I get a call the other night from a friend who has worked there for a few years and she is VERY excited about a new position the company on a national level has decided to implement that she has applied for, and she wants to tell me all about it.
Well, it's basically my old job, even with virtually the same title, reinvented by corporate management on a national level.
The local operations manager (evil witch) who eliminated that position/my position quit her job last year (because everyone hated her and she sucked) and the new ops manager doesn't know me so she never contacted me about the new job. I find out now that others who do know me and would have notified me about the new position thought I wouldn't be interested because they didn't know the full story of what happened - I didn't feel the need to bad-mouth the boss and they thought I was just done on the management level - so they didn't inform me either.
So now most of the interview process has been completed, but I feel like I'm far & away the best candidate for this new/old position, and because of pride (a bad reason) and a continuing but difficult to measure level of desire to be back in the middle of the action (a better reason) I decided earlier today that I want to apply and at least check out the deal first-hand, and I'm pretty sure that I would nail down the job if I did interview and found that I wanted it.
The problem I'm facing is as I began putting together a message & resume to the GM I get an email from my friend who told me about all this the other night and who is sky high about landing the job herself, thanking me profusely for my advice and friendship and telling me again how excited she is for this opportunity to grow.
I do have desire to reclaim my position and get back in the big leagues but as I think about it I feel like If I did interview now and got the job I'd be a total rat to my friend, who wants the job badly. I'd like to have it back, but I've been there and done that while she is ambitious and on the rise and certainly wants it more than I do.
I guess the answer is to call her tomorrow and let her know that I want to apply for the position, but knowing her of course she'll say FOR SURE TOM, GO FOR IT, even though after talking with her the other night and reading her email tonight I know how much she wants the job and how much it would disappoint her and almost certainly hurt her if I cut past her at the last minute.
Granted she might not be the pick even if I don't apply, and maybe they wouldn't pick me anyway, but knowing her record and some of the others who have applied I'm pretty sure she's the one who is at the moment lined up to get the gig.
So how much do I really want the job, and how much am I willing to scratch and pull away from people I like & respect to get it?
I guess this is a first-world problem, but after seeing her email it's been bugging the hell out of me the past couple of hours.
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Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
hmmmmmm
hmmmmmm
This has a familiar ring to it, possibly even the friend / candidate
What if neither of you get the job, and some other shmoe were to be hired?
It is in you blood, and it is what you truly love, you are well suited for the role, you have the correct laid back demeanor
It has been, and still is in your blood. your mentors of the past are still with you, and some of the glorious past may be revisited for the next generations
continuity
It is both close to home, and close to your heart
If you don't go for it, you may not forgive yourself, and let's face it , you are no spring chicken>> GO TO THE SHOE(s)
second chances only come once (LOL)
Only so many spring trainings left buddy, and an opportunity like this, for you only comes so often, This is a one shot deal
Your friend will say it is OK and in fact support you,, Perhaps a cool lieutenant job, or some sort of job sharing would evolve, and you can support her dreams and career as well
What will it mean to you teaching career, and your love of entertainment. The company is not the one of your past, but the sweet spot is,
It is in your blood. Let me know if you need help with your resume (remember you are a"tad" bit long winded)
GOOD LUCK, GO FOR THE SHOES
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Do you regret passing on the
Do you regret passing on the opportunities of the past?
I think so.The path is clear grasshopper, go with the flow
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
It sounds like you are
It sounds like you are interested in a job that other people including your friend is applying for, but has not yet landed. You say that your friend "is sky high about landing the job herself" and "excited... for this opportunity to grow." The only problem with that line of thought is that like you, neither has the job. So she is sky high about her potential, which if she lands the job would then open up an opportunity for growth.
IMHO you have every right to apply for an open position. Ask yourself how much you really want this job. If I understand what you wrote correctly, you believe that this potential job interview will determine whether you want the job. Normally people determine their interest in a job before applying for it. By moving up a corporate ladder, people who were once at the same level as you, be they friends or not will treat you differently. The fact that she respects and thanks you for your friendship is fine, but yes your friends views about you are sure to change if you land a job that she wants. It is what it is.
The part that confuses me is your notion that she wants the job more then you. Either you want this job or not. By landing said job, you believe that you would be a rat. That you've been there and done that. Sounds like you have mixed emotions about whether you really want this job. Most people who apply for a job, including your friend, know that they want it. I would humbly suggest that you figure out how important this job is to you. That includes how your new found position (if you land the job) will effect both you and people you know and like.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>Sounds like you have mixed
>>>Sounds like you have mixed emotions about whether you really want this job<<<
I do have mixed emotions.
>>>I would humbly suggest that you figure out how important this job is to you<<<
That's what the interview would help with. Until I speak with the GM & new ops manager about what the true parameters of the job are I won't know exactly how I'll feel about it. I kept trying to get my friend to explain details about what exactly the job entails and in many aspects she was pretty vague, at least about what I was trying to get at.
It could be a corporate monkey-on-a-chain deal, or it could be a bit more open to interpretation and involve training of staff, which is what interests me the most. After talking with them it might well be decided by either side or mutually that I'm not the right choice. (At the risk of sounding arrogant I would almost certainly be the right choice, I may just have no interest).
Bottom line is it's all happening a little fast without much info, but I know if I wait to think about it or talk to others it could be too late. I really thought I was out, and now I have to think about getting back in and it's not a simple thing, especially since it involves possibly hurting a friend.
Understanding exactly what would be expected and how much room I'd have to do it my way would help me figure out how motivated I'd be.
And thanks Jammin' Joel, I appreciate the thoughts. Much of what you say is right on.
No worries on the resume though. It's a big part of my day job to help students write those all the time. I actually do understand about brevity when it's needed.
I'm generally not one to get too personal here or on the old place. I'm just rambling on with this to help me hash it out a bit in my head.
The zone has always been good when it comes to hash.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: I rang a silent bell
You should interview and then
You should interview and then decide. If you are offered the job you'll have a clear conscience weather or not you accept it. The best course of action will reveal itself.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: O'Toole
Lance, you can always try the
Lance, you can always try the honest approach and level with your friend about that being your old job and explain how you feel about being demoted by the departed witch.
Or if you are happy where you are there is something to be said for that. Also if your friend gets the job having friends in high places is a big plus. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ausonius
Apply and interview, then go
Apply and interview, then go from there.
Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rich Pankanin
do not tell anyone your
do not tell anyone your applying. just apply. see where the cards fall. if you tell anyone, they will have time to perhaps prepare better for the position, knowing you already have done it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Cam
Just tell her how it all went down, and tell her you loved your old job, and want a chance at it.
I think that it might be presumptuous of you to assume that by applying, you would get the job.
Not knowing the company, there are lots of reasons the "best" person for the job would deliberately not be picked. The 2 main ones being age, & expense. Especially if the job is trainable, or something that the employee can learn on-th-job to do the way the company wants.
And good luck! Having an opportunity to do what you like for work, has eluded me for way to long.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
I agree with Foghorn about
I agree with Foghorn about the being honest with your friend approach. U know, if she can handle the truth.
>> Understanding exactly what would be expected and how much room I'd have to do it my way would help me figure out how motivated I'd be.
Hopefully the job interview will help.
Is the job interview with your direct report? Most times that happens on the second go round.
Stating the obvious here, sometimes the only way 2 answer the legitimate questions U pose is 2 see what happens on the job.
Good luck.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Let your friend know that you
Let your friend know that you are also applying for the job, or just wait and see if you are offered the position. either way, if she's a friend she will understand. Afterall, if you get the job, you'll be in a better position to help her out in the company. if you're happy in your current low levels position with low level stress, you can always turn down the job if you are offered it, but it seems worth the effort to apply.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: charmskooldropout
Sounds like it's time to quit
Sounds like it's time to quit that shitty job and get a hot dog cart. They already fucked you out of the job once
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
PS
PS
let me know if you want the number of a local professional career coach - Liz is one of the best and can help with your dilemma.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I agree with Nancy.
I agree with Nancy.
Go for it, but be honest with your friend.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: B R
If you are truly interested
If you are truly interested in the position, you should not feel bad about applying for it. You do not need to say anything to your friend.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
All this, and you still have
All this, and you still have time to teach?
Agree about the hash though.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: boone
Several yearsw ago I was in
Several years ago I was in line for a job going from the production floor to the programming department. A friend of mine who had been at this company longer than I would've been the most logical pick to take the position. Since I also wanted it, I approached him and asked if he was indeed applying for the position. I was totally ready to back off if he wanted it. He said that he wasn't going for the job. So I applied and was just a day or two from being told I had it when my "friend" put in for the position, without even telling me. Of course management changed their mind and went with him. He never apologized or anything so needless to say I stopped calling him friend. To this day I hate the guy.
Walk away...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Sound of Steam and Caffeine
Apply and interview = the
Apply and interview = the path of keeping your options open until you have enough information to decide how to proceed
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> because of pride (a bad
> because of pride (a bad reason) and a continuing but difficult to measure level of desire to be back in the middle of the action (a better reason)
I find it interesting that you listed a bad reason and a better one, but did not identify a good reason. I wonder what a good reason might be.
It sounds like pride is holding sway here based on what you wrote earlier in your first post: "I found that after so many years of every problem being my problem I actually enjoyed working there as a 'lowly schmo' without any of the responsibilities/headaches, and was pretty comfortable with my semi-retirement." I don't have any answers for you though, only observations of what you posted.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>and get a hot dog cart<<<
>>>and get a hot dog cart<<<
My inner Ignatius J. Riley would make that a bad idea...
Thanks for the advice folks.
Ultimately I realize that it's my ambiguity about going back to management more than possibly hurting my friend that is what's sticking in my head. She considers me a mentor and friend and would understand.
When it comes to important decisions I have always been very deliberate in my process. People have bagged on me most of my life about it, telling me I'm just indecisive, but I very much prefer to take my time and let the choices simmer and go back & forth in my head, trusting that the right choice will emerge in it's own time. Virtually every time I've done that for something important time has proven that I made the right choice in the end.
As I said, writing all this out here is part of me turning up the heat in my head for a faster simmer, since I don't have the time I'd like for consideration.
I fear that it's more my ego about not being initially considered than it is my deep desire to get back on the front lines that is motivating me now. Ego is a bitch, and if I got the job I'm sure I would embrace it at first, but I worry about burnout later down the line.
Plus I'm just lazy. Always have been. Laziness is a bitch too, but she's a very appealing & comfortable one that has wooed me all my life.
Oh, BTW, this is ultimately a part-time job that is busiest mostly in the summer. I don't teach summer school (laziness winning there) so it has always fit in well enough with my schedule. It has in the past fucked with my time early in a new school year though, which is when I have concern about getting burned out.
And now, after going back and reading through all this I realize that at this point it's silly to be so cryptic about the company & the job.
I'm talking about Live Nation and Shoreline Amphitheatre, where I've worked for 31 years, 28 of those as a department head and manager, and during the peak of those years I was involved at similar levels with Bill Graham Presents overall.
I was set and on a clear path to make BGP my career, but then that fucker got in that damn helicopter, and when the corporate beast came in things changed considerably, so when the opportunity came along from Live Nation to go full-time I chose a different direction.
That choice was probably the biggest of the difficult decisions I've wrestled with, both being very alluring and the concert production job the one I'd focused on for so long, but time has proven to me that there is NO QUESTION that I made the right call when I turned my back on LN as a career.
For a number of reasons, over the years on the zone I've never wanted to talk about that specifically, mostly to maintain an even level of perspective from the group and to avoid being considered a shill.
Anyway, even though it's Live Nation now and I'm way past my desire/need to be in charge, it is still a fairly awesome and satisfying thing to wrestle with a dysfunctional beast like The Dump, put on a decent show and see 20,000+ people who are most often drunken knuckleheads enjoy it, knowing that you were right in the middle of making a huge, sloppy, generic shed a decent venue. Or a least as good as it can be.
Let me tell you folks, it's never easy to put on a show, especially at a place like Shoreline.
OK, so while writing this latest long-winded ramble I've decided to go ahead and contact the GM.
We'll see what happens next.
And to clear my head I'm going to see Phil tonight!
Whoop!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Does your friend read laViva?
Does your friend read laViva? If so, I hope you gave her a heads up about your decision to apply.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Lord no!
Lord no!
I would never keep friends who would participate in a place like THIS!
Buncha' damn freaks around here.
But then you never know, people do strange things in the dark of night.
Hopefully if she's seeing this she understands.
If not I'll just step on her on my way past her!
MUUWAHAAHAAHAA!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: |-|/-\|_|_
good luck and make sure to
best of luck and make sure to post the impending meltdown emails
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Glad you figured it out.
Glad you figured it out. Good luck and good wishes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I've seen you in action. You
I've seen you in action. You are pretty good at what you do.
I imagine that was only a small facet of your talents.
You owe it to yourself to go for it.
Glad you are proceeding. Best to ya.
I'm gonna need four pavillion Phish tickets , please. ;-)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Good Luck, Lance!
Good Luck, Lance!
You KNOW that I'm always in your corner. So, I won't give you any advice to befuddle your brain.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>I'm gonna need four
>>>I'm gonna need four pavillion Phish tickets , please<<<
No problem, there will just be a few slight fees added.
I've learned a thing or two from Live Nation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: bweir I like cheese
^^LOL, you seem like a good
^^LOL, you seem like a good man mr newbury, good luck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
Is this one of the new coal
Is this one of the new coal mining jobs Trump promised you on the campaign trail?...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
So when will live nation be
So when will live nation be adding more shows that I can use my free vouchers on?
just kidding, and I was rooting for lazy all a long