Houston, we have a problem...

Because Trump

Derp

RRG asking the tough questions.

Sweet thread.

Man, this is serious. I hope the loss of life is small, haven't kept up with the news.

Without heads of Emergency agencies in the Trump administration, will the agencies function better or worse?

wow gnarly.

best wishes to all.

just said the storm is hanging around all week....

There's actually a head of FEMA and it says here that he's even qualified: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/25/hurricane_harvey_texas...

could it be that texans don't like being told what to do?

I was wrong, I didn't realize there was a FEMA head. It's going to be a ridiculously tough job.

>>>>Why were mandatory evacuations not ordered??

Local officials asserted that ordering an evacuation would have put millions of people on the roadways and that would have only made the disaster worse.  By contrast, the Governor said people should get the hell out of dodge.  Guess time will tell which approach was better:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/27/harvey-is-...

Francisco Sanchez should be forced to go out & rescue residents personally! I don't live in TX but his dumb ass statement has me pissed off! 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/houston-told-people-to-stay-for-harvey-now-... HANNAFORD 8/27

>> Two days ago, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott told Houston residents that even in the absence of an official evacuation order “you need to strongly consider evacuating.”

But there was immediate pushback from Houston officials who said they knew better.

Harris County’s emergency management spokesperson, Francisco Sanchez, responded to Abbott’s suggestion on Twitter this way:

“Local officials know best. Houston has no evacuation order. In Harris County: very limited to select communities. LOCAL LEADERS KNOW BEST.”

One person tweeted back to the self-proclaimed “master of disaster” that “You're going to feel stupid if this storm proves you wrong.” Sanchez replied: “Actually we feel quite blessed. And, thankful for the first responders & public safety officials that are working to keep us safe.”

Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner said on Friday evacuation was not necessary.

"There are a number of people who are in Hurricane Harvey's direct path, and evacuation orders have been given to them. But for the Houston area … this is a rainmaker for us. There's no need for people to be thinking about putting themselves in greater danger."

Harris County Judge Ed Emmett said the safest thing for Houston residents was for them to “stay where you are and ride out the storm. … We don't anticipate any kind of massive evacuation.”

Now it’s too late to leave the city, with almost every roadway in and out closed. Even Sanchez admitted as much on Twitter: “I can keep telling you to stay put, but the reality is YOU CAN'T GET ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW.” >>

>>>Why are you always such an arrogant douche?

Let's stay on topic here, RRG.

This isn't the first time you've veered wildly off course lately, is it?

Just Awful !! Praying !!

Slacker Get OFF Your POOL ASS And Go There And Help otherwise Leave Your Dumb  Witty Comments To Your Fucking SELF !

#POOLASS !

Thanks for the thread RRG! My compliment isn't facetious...like some Zonahs. Mine's genuine! YEA ~ JEN U WINE!  

St. Mark. always busting RRG's chops reminds of when I would tease girls who I thought were cute in grade school just to get their attention...

Are you secretly crushing on RRG St. Mark & just won't admit it? hhhmmm...

Fark, let's keep this thread topic about people like me not doing enough. 

>>>Are you secretly crushing on RRG St. Mark & just won't admit it?

That's it.

I know she feels it too 

>>Are you secretly crushing on RRG St. Mark and just won't admit it?

I think rrg already nailed it with the sublime "arrogant douche"

How many people were supposed to leave?

Where were they supposed to go?

For how long? 

All of them.

California.

Permanently.

 They can escape to Mexico

if that wall was in place this wouldn't be happening.

Well, no more need to panic.  Trump is headed down there on Tuesday.  

So the Seniors are reported as rescued, some via Helicopter.  Also the Houston Zoo Animals are all safe.

But they are supposed to get another 3-4 feet of Rain,  so that isn't good.  All the highways are shut down and the airports are closed.  Basically no one can leave now.  People in the flood plain are going to get hungry over the next few days.

Slacker - your name says it all, but St. Mark doesn't always come across as a saint! Jus' sayin'! 

I try to bust chops and he goes along with it...hhhmmm. I just may have hit the nail on the head after all! 

RRG ~ That picture above has me freaked out! It looks real, but hits me as surreal. I see old folks wheel chair wheel deep in what has to be 3 feet of water. Sanchez, Turner & Emmett should get their collective asses over there to get those seniors citizens outta that damn water! - Thanks for the update Stu! 

LOCAL LEADERS KNOW BEST....HOW TO SCREW THEIR CITY OVER! 

They're going to have to resort to food drops to rooftops before this is over. ( ( ( ( SE TEXAS ) ) ) )

Those olds were all rescued already.

Anybody wanna bet it was a crew of brave and competent Gen Xers who rescued those old Baby Boomers in Houston?

Again; you're welcome.

The kitteh in the Senior photo was also reportedly rescued  (it's in the background sitting on the sofa).

Who cares what generation the rescuers are / were? Gen X'ers are no "Greatest Generation" and I am older Gen X. The Baby Boomers did & still have more of their shit together than most Gen X'ers. 

>>>The Baby Boomers did & still have more of their shit together than most Gen X'ers. 

Yeah. They're really killing it. 

serious shit going on in houston 

maybe you could find a different thread to shit all over

Let's stay on topic here, ok?

much rather live in mexico than houston

Mandatory evacuations were ordered. Had friends who were on the road by Thursday.. Maybe some people are just dumb.......or Fake News.....

>>>>>>>Maybe some people are just dumb

or poor

>>>>>>Mandatory evacuations were ordered

I believe that's the fake news.  

OMG

"Officials in Houston did not issue an evacuation order, saying residents should stay put."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/27/us/houston-evacu...

..

Hurricane Harvey: Widespread Evacuations Ordered in Texas

By Ada Carr and Eric Chaney and Pam Wright

Aug 25 2017 06:30 AM EDT

weather.com

00:5301:33

Now Playing:

National Disaster Unfolding in Texas

Story Highlights

Runs on food, water, gas and other supplies have already begun as residents along the Texas coast prepare for Harvey.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has declared a disaster for 30 Texas counties.

At least one college campus will close and evacuate Thursday and workers are being evacuated off oil rigs in the Gulf.

Widespread evacuations have been ordered along Texas' Gulf Coast ahead of Hurricane Harvey.

Officials in Calhoun, Victoria, Jackson, San Patricio and Refugio counties north of Corpus Christi issued orders on Thursday, along with the cities of Portland, Rockport, Port Aransas, Aransas Pass, Ingleside and Robstown. All residents of Brazoria County who live on the Gulf side of the Intracoastal Canal have been ordered to evacuate, as well. 

Harvey became a hurricane around 1 p.m. Eastern Thursday and is still gaining strength as it churns through the Gulf of Mexico. Harvey is forecast to make landfall as a major Category 3 hurricane sometime early Saturday morning. The last storm of that category to hit the U.S. was Hurricane Wilma in October 2005 in Florida.

The Texas Department of Transportation has released an evacuation guide with highlighted routes and important tips.

Nueces County and the City of Corpus Christi have also issued a mandatory evacuation for high profile vehicles, KZTV reports, but no full evacuation has been ordered yet.

(MORE: Hurricane Harvey Could Impact Gas Prices Nationwide; Oil Rig Workers Evacuated)

Corpus Christi Mayor Joe McComb said in a Thursday afternoon press conference that the city is strongly encouraging evacuations, and officials are "almost at the threshold for mandatory evacuation, but we are not going to cross that line right now."

"We could mandate it, but people need to make a decision of their own. I'm not going to risk our police and fire people going to try and drag somebody out of the house if they don't want to go," McComb said. "Because our fire and police, they're fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters, uncles. They've got relatives and they've got family, and we don't want to put them in harm's way because someone just wanted to stay."

View image on Twitter

 Follow

CityOfCorpusChristi ✔@cityofcc

Mayor McComb strongly encourages evacuation, especially the low lying areas of Area A and B as seen in the map below (pink and yellow area).

2:54 PM - Aug 24, 2017

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The US Navy has closed Naval Air Station Corpus Christi until further notice and has ordered the evacuation of all non-essential active-duty military personnel. 

Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi announced its campus would close and everyone would be required to evacuate by noon Thursday, according to a release.

Oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico had already begun to evacuate workers earlier in the day, and residents along the Texas coast have been stocking up on food water and other supplies in the face of Hurricane Harvey.

"We got all of our food supplies yesterday," Corpus Christi resident Robert Cavanaugh told the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. "The closer it (the storm) gets, the more crazy the stores will be."

(MORE: The Latest Harvey Forecast)

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott declared a state of disaster for at least 30 counties and urged residents to prepare for the powerful storm.

"Texans believe in taking action and always being prepared in the event of an emergency," Abbott said in a release. "That is why I am taking every precaution prior to Tropical (Storm) Harvey making landfall. Preemptively declaring a state of disaster will allow Texas to quickly deploy resources for the emergency response effort in anticipation of the storm's hazardous conditions."

On Thursday, Abbott activated about 700 members of the state National Guard. Military helicopters were also on standby in Austin and San Antonio in preparation for search and rescues and emergency evacuations.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said President Donald Trump was "briefed and will continue to be updated as the storm progresses."

The Padre Island National Seashore in Corpus Christi, Texas, closed its North and South beaches at noon Thursday due to the storm, according to a local tourism agency.

Texas Senator Ted Cruz issued a statement Thursday asking Texans in the path of the storm to remain vigilant.

“As Texas prepares for the potential impact in the Gulf Coast region from [Hurricane] Harvey, I urge all Texans in the path of the storm to heed warnings from local officials, know your evacuation route, and avoid all high water areas," the statement reads.

Houston Area Impacts 

The Houston Independent School District announced Thursday that all district schools and administrative offices will be closed on Monday, August 28 due to the threat of inclement weather.  

The closure will affect more than 200,000 students — Houston ISD is the largest in Texas and the eighth-largest in the U.S. Classes are scheduled to resume on Tuesday.

"And while we wanted to start the school year with a whirlwind, this isn't the whirlwind we were thinking of," Houston ISD Superintendent Richard Carranza told reporters.

Officials on Galveston Island are planning for possible major flooding by clearing storm drains and other infrastructure, KHOU.com reported.

"We are looking at this as a rain event at this point," Galveston Office of Emergency Management Coordinator Niki Bender told KHOU. "We are watching, like everyone else, what the National Weather Service and the hurricane center are putting out."

Runs on Food, Water, Gasoline Have Already Begun

Residents along the Texas coast flocked to grocery and hardware stores and gas stations to stock up on last-minute supplies. In the Houston area, ABC 13 reported long lines at Wal-Mart and local grocery stores. Social media photos showed bare shelves, especially in the bottled water aisle.

 Follow

KPRC 2 Houston ✔@KPRC2

#Spring residents lined up outside @HEB on FM 2920 as we brace for #Harvey. Photo credit: Lanice Sales --> http://bit.ly/2v7S73S?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_KPRC2 …

7:39 AM - Aug 24, 2017

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According to WFAA, Kroger is sending nearly 80 truckloads of water and other supplies from warehouses in the Dallas-Fort Worth area to Southeast Texas as Harvey approaches.

Local farmers are anticipating the storm as well. Rice farmers in coastal Matagorda County are moving quickly to harvest their crops before the storm hits, the AP reported. Cotton farmers are doing the same in Victoria County, Matt Bochat, a county agent for Texas A&M's AgriLife Extension Service program, told the Victoria Advocate.

"We've been seeing some really good yields this year in cotton," he said. "That would be sad to see them not be able to get anything out of it."

Airports to Remain Open

Officials at Houston airports say they expect to remain open after Hurricane Harvey hits South Texas, but airlines are encouraging customers to change travel plans, according to the Associated Press.

United, Southwest and American are offering waivers for customers scheduled to fly to, from or through Houston and several other Texas cities from Friday through Sunday. Delta will waive charges for changes to flight plans through Saturday.

So weather.com issued evacuation friday morning at 6:30am, mayor was urging evacuation on Thursday, along with others for a hurricane that made landfall on saturday. Hoover your news sources are obviosly old or messed up!

Yeah, those aren't mandatory 

Mayor of Houston vs Governor, from what I read.

Airports to Remain Open

Officials at Houston airports say they expect to remain open after Hurricane Harvey hits South Texas <<<

They got that one wrong as well.

There was no evacuation order for Houston.

Houston did not order an evacuation...they did the exact opposite & told their 6.5 million residents to stay put. FACT not fake news FACT

They damned fake news will be when they come out tomorrow to say that they didnt say stay put. I am sick of hearing about this fake news bullshit by bullshitters! 

"At this time I can reemphasize there will be no mass evacuations called," said Harris County Judge Edward Emmett, who is responsible for overseeing emergency operations, at a joint press conference with Turner on Friday.

"Mayor Sylvester Turner defended his decision not to order evacuations before the city was hit by torrential rain from Hurricane Harvey."

Now is not the time to point fingers; but I would like to point out that both Mayor Turner and Judge Emmett are, in fact, Baby Boomers. 

Now is not the time to point fingers; but I would like to point out = WTF? Straight up DBaggery

I'd like to say that now is definitely the time to point fingers so please keep going 

Exactly Fark, That storm was on the news last Monday. Plenty of time to get your shit together, no finger pointing needed......The thread poster stated in first post that no evacuations were ordered. Complete BS.....

Looks like New Orleans will be getting it's residents back from Katrina.

People helping people in need is what we do best in America (proud) except when it comes to politics (embarrassed).

Fishermen and duck hunters to the rescue with there boats.

VIBES to Houston!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go girl...

>>>Now is not the time to point fingers; but I would like to point out = WTF? Straight up DBaggery

It's unfortunate that pointing out the facts makes you feel like you need to resort to name calling, Fark.

Hopefully we can all agree that our thoughts and prayers are with the good people in Texas right now. Obviously with a couple of incompetent fools like Turner and Emmett calling the shots, they need all the help they can get.

#Houstonstrong 

 I think we are splitting hairs. It seems that some evacuations were ordered and were possibly made mandatory in localities & smaller cities near to the areas where the hurricane made landfall. Then it appears there were messages from the Governor urging people to make decisions for themselves & seriously consider evacuating but ultimately make the decision for yourself. Then it appears that Houston officials, remembering Rita evacuation of 2005 landed on the wrong side of caution and recommended staying put, no need to evacuate. Then you have the city offical in Rockport, Patrick Rios who said, “All the advice we can give is get out. Get out now,” said Mr Rios. “Those that are going to stay, it’s unfortunate but they should make some type of preparations. Mark their arm with a Sharpie pen. Put their Social Security number on it and their name.”

I think FEMA needs to come up with a system to get everyone on the same page EARLY on. It's crazy to think that 10-15 million people could ultimately be affected by this hurricane and torrential rain. How do you evacuate that many people?  

Meanwhile neighbors are in boats, rafts and anything that floats trying to rescue their neighbors. Emergency responders from all over the state, country & the National Guard are out rescuing citizens. Looking at the photos that are emerging is humbling to me. It is inspiring though to see people going all out to help & rescue their neighbors & strangers from peril. We all just wish it wouldn't have to come to that...right? 

Possibly a major learning lesson for FEMA & city officials all across the country who are in danger of hurricanes & their aftermath. {{{{ SE TEXAS }}}} 

Mark - I apologize. Your oxymoron pushed my button. Definition of Oxymoron. Oxymoron is a figure of speech in which two opposite ideas are joined to create an effect.

Turner is a freaking idiot. Must of reloctaed from New Orleans after Katrina. But in reality this is all Trump's fault or Putin's handiwork.....

>>>Mark - I apologize

We cool. 

We had major flooding about 4 years ago. Some roads are just now getting finished. FEMA money is a joke. I have friends who lost their house which was paid off. FEMA gave them enough to get another mortgage - not another house. They had to move to a condo in town. The county also would not let them rebuild because the river rerouted. 

Insurance refused to pay people whose house flooded from the inside because sewer lines backed up after the storm drains backed into them. Set a fire on the way out, then you are covered. 

Good News!!! The Presidential Library of 41 and 43 has not been effected by flood. Tickets are only $19.00 for adults, children under 4 are free!!! What a deal!!! People can learn the history of how George Bush saved the city of New Orleans from a hurricane

Because every good President knows how to stop a hurricane. That was real deep Charlie but a major fail, learn your history!

Nothing to worry about, Trump got this.

He's following it closely on faux news.

History, teach me, I'm willing to learn.

Oh that's right George Bush was saving New York City when the twin tower fell dowm on his watch.

>>>>Because every good President knows how to stop a hurricane

I don't think the expectation is that the president has the power to stop a hurricane (although, let's be honest; I would definitely vote for somebody with that super power); I think the expectation is that the president responds appropriately to a hurricane; which your boy Trump is currently not doing, because he's a complete twat.

>>>>>

Where were they supposed to go?

For how long? 

Top of Page Bottom of Page Permalink 

cb

 shuffle on Sunday, August 27, 2017 – 04:18 pm

All of them.

California.

Permanently.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

yes. we are buiding more homes!! maxxxing it out. 500k-1m townhomes.  adding like 100k more people to the county. weather is good if you like hot. no water though. byo water or keep stealing it from the rest of the state or the colorado. missionpotato.com #mixed devlelepment/coarruptcaltrans#business/politicalelties.gov.

Why didn't all those Texans use their guns to shoot the storm?  So much for the good guy with the gun narrative.

>>> Why didn't all those Texans use their guns to shoot the storm? <<<

lol Mr. Hoover.

How much more rain do they expect? 

6"'s an hr

 >>He had major flooding about 4 years ago. Some roads are just now getting finished. FEMA money is a joke. I have friends who lost their house which was paid off. FEMA gave them enough to get another mortgage - not another house. They had to move to a condo in town. The county also would not let them rebuild because the river rerouted. 

Insurance refused to pay people whose house flooded from the inside because sewer lines backed up after the storm drains backed into them. Set a fire on the way out, then you are covered.

It's not FEMA's responsibly to cover the cost to rebuild, that is why one needs flood insurance. The sewers backing up into your home should be covered by Homeowners insurance, might require a rider.

Watching the coverage is heartbreaking. The nightmare is just beginning for these people.

>>>>insurance refused to pay people whose house flooded from the inside because sewer lines backed up after the storm drains backed into them

Most homeowner policies have exclusions for water damage.  Generally, the only exceptions are when water gets in through a storm created opening (i.e. the roof blows off and rain gets in) or if there is a sudden and accidental plumbing leak (slow leaks that cause damage over time are not covered).  Otherwise, you have to get special flood insurance.

However, with "500 year storms" happening every five years or so these days, I suspect flood insurance should be harder and more expensive to get.  The question then becomes should FEMA and the American taxpayer be required to keep bailing out homeowners who choose to rebuild on beaches and in low lying areas prone to flooding?

They were warned.

>Most homeowner policies have exclusions for water damage

I have a rider on my homeowners policy which covers sewer backup

>>>>I have a rider on my homeowners policy which covers sewer backup

Good for you.  I have handled a ton of sewage intrusion cases and never had a homeowners policy that covered such an occurrence.  Without first party coverage, you end up having to sue the city or whoever runs the sewer and unless you can show how they fucked up (which you can in many instances) the homeowner is shit out of luck and has to foot the cleanup bill out of pocket. 

If anyone in the area needs help with interpreting their policy I'm always available.

[email protected]

Very nice, Jonas. I wonder how many of us there are in Texas?

Last year, the longtime head of the Harris County flood control district, Mike Talbott, told ProPublica that his agency had no plans to study the impact of climate change on the region’s flooding problems. Here’s a quote from that article, 

Of the astonishing frequency of huge floods the city has been getting, he said, “I don't think it's the new normal.” He also criticized scientists and conservationists for being “anti-development.”

“They have an agenda ... their agenda to protect the environment overrides common sense,” he said.

>>>>>>Very nice, Jonas. I wonder how many of us there are in Texas?

Totally.  Kudos Jonas.

WhiteyX

Jeff Duke

Blair (I think).  Hope his lifetime supply of lightbulbs are dry.

The drummer from Forgotten Space whos name escapes me at the moment.  Jerry maybe.

I think Manfred too.

Best of luck to all of them.

Yeah, Houston has paved over a lot of their wetlands in the last decade.

Think all of forgotten space band is from texas is what someone told me.

Yeah but I only think one of them is a "Zoner"

>>I have handled a ton of sewage intrusion cases and never had a homeowners policy that covered such an occurrence<<

I find that surprising. Such coverage seems like a no-brainer.

One thing I learned from my experience with Sandy is that displaced folks need to find a place to live asap. Sign a year lease if you have to. Rebuilding can take years, and available places will go fast.

>>>>WhiteyX

Jeff Duke

Blair (I think).  Hope his lifetime supply of lightbulbs are dry.

The drummer from Forgotten Space whos name escapes me at the moment.  Jerry maybe.

I think Manfred too<<<

Don't forget about Hedspace.

And the drummer from Forgotten Space is a very cool guy. Is he "one of us"?

It took me awhile to think of it, I think his PZ name was something like Antwerp's Placebo. He's not registered here under that (those) name.

Jazfish knows his name.

Apparently  there are a couple large reservoirs with Earthen / stone dams,  one named 'Addicks' and another 'Barker'.  They are getting overly-full,  and so they opened the spillways,  but they are filling up faster than they can drain.  So if / when the Water breaches the dam(s),  built sometime in the 1940's,  there will be a lot more flooding in Houston.

Then there are reports of armed looters robbing houses and shooting at rescue boats.  

So it sounds kinda hairy there right now.  Too bad the mayor did not go with the Evacuation plan when there was still a chance.  

Toad is down that way too, I believe...

no rain in North Texas (DFW) yet.

Houston metro area is 10 times bigger  5 times bigger than New Orleans, where would you evacuate 7 million people to?

Houston area traffic is a serious clusterfuck even without an evacuation.

Also....the highways and freeways are major drainage channels, meaning they flood first.

If you want to blame people, blame devlopment, read today that Houston increased pavement by 25% over the past two decades.

If you want to blame people, blame too many people.

>>>>>Houston increased pavement by 25% over the past two decades

I read that too and that a lot of that was on wetlands.

Toad and Duke are in Austin and okay.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/houston-flooding-harvey.html?_r=0

HOUSTON — As one of the most destructive storms in the nation’s history pummeled southeast Texas for a fourth day, forecasts on Tuesday morning called for still more rain, making clear that catastrophic flooding that had turned neighborhoods into lakes was just the start of a disaster that would take years to overcome.

Local, state and federal officials conceded that the scale of the crisis was so vast that they were nowhere near being able to measure it, much less fully address it.

Across a region that is home to millions of people and includes Houston, the nation’s fourth-largest city, no one has a clear idea how many people are missing, how many evacuated, how many hunkered down or were trapped in their waterlogged homes, or how many inundated houses and vehicles are beyond saving.

...

Mandatory evacuation orders were issued for parts of several coastal counties south of Houston, home to hundreds of thousands of people. Many more residents were covered by voluntary evacuation directives issued by counties and cities

...

The picture Zooey posted.  Wow.

It's interesting watching the reaction to this catastrophe compared to when Katrina hit New Orleans.  Houston is a much larger city, but it doesn't seem to generate the same reaction that New Orleans received.  Certainly, my sympathies go out to all who are affected by this mess, but the reality is that I just don't care about Houston like I do about New Orleans.  I mostly remember it being a sprawling concrete jungle that I was glad to put in my rear-view mirror.  Good luck to the people there.  Moving might be the best thing that ever happened to them.

We'll never see Whitey-X's homemade natural soap.

But I bet he's OK.

We'll see about Houston but with Katrina there were bodies in the street for days, cops shooting at people who were trying to cross the bridge to get out of town, a President who seemed pissed that it was interfering with his golf plans, and an appointed buffon heading up FEMA whose previous job was to run a horse show. 

It won't take much to have a better response in Houston. For one thing the water will drain. New Orleans is a bowl that fills, and if the pumps break like they did in Katrina the water has no where to go. 

Some rain gauges in Harris County southeast of Houston are showing 48 inches of rain from the storm.  That sets a new record for the most rain from a tropical storm/hurricane event in the continental US.

FEMA Barbie is on the case!

FEMA Barbie is on the case!

Lol at the FLOTUS baseball cap. 

Real classy Donny, using Harvey to market your "USA" caps.

Only 40 bucks, what a deal...

Judit, I met and hung a little with Jerry and Dino at a couple of DSO shoes. You are correct. Jerry was Antwerps Placebo. Drums for Forgotten Space and I have seen some streams of him drumming with Mars Hotel too.

(((Whitey- X )))vibes.

Dana Gould  ~  Yesterday at 1:04pm

My thoughts and prayers go out to the people of Houston as they struggle to deal with this massive hoax created by the Chinese.