Are the calls to defund police before enacting effective gun control policies a case of putting the cart before the horse?
It seems that having so many guns loose in society with an inability of police to deter their criminal use is a recipe for disaster. I would like to see money being used for police enforcement redistributed to other social services like low cost housing, mental health services and public education and health, but maybe we need to take care of the glut of guns in our society first?
They are not separate issues. If there are a large amount of guns on the streets with no deterrent, armed crime will increase. You can't sell a defund the police platform without assuring the general public and businesses that they will not be at greater risk.
> It seems that having so many guns loose in society with an inability of police to deter their criminal use is a recipe for disaster.
On the surface, that sounds well-reasoned, but it also seems to disregard its own premise. We already have "so many guns loose in society", and that's with a police force that's heavily armed, unaccountable in many ways, and mostly unchecked. Following your reasoning, it almost seems to suggest that the police need more power, not less of it.
Defunding the police doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all, but demilitarizing them sure does.
Demilitarizing can be a component of defunding, Bss, but demilitarization can also occur through the reallocation of police resources, which doesn't necessarily require defunding.
I think we need to define some terms. Here's the definition of "defunding" that describes where I'm coming from:
“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality.
Edit: When I mentioned reallocation of police resources in my previous post, what I meant was to move funds from things like weapons and riot gear to other police programs, like community-based policing
I thought the "defund police," movement, in general, wasn't about getting rid of the police. It's about no longer using them as the first responders for everything, and instead better funding the other, more appropriate first responders. For instance, when someone calls 911, and it's for someone having a psychotic breakdown, mental health professionals will be dispatched instead of the police. As we know, many with mental illnesses are victims of police violence. We have over-funded the police and asked them to do things that they aren't equipped for, nor should they ever do. Defund the police so their sole job is to serve and protect, and reallocate so that the proper people are doing all the other stuff.
Redirecting some funds to something like our CAHOOTS is the best idea that will come of this. CAHOOTS stands for Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets and has been functioning since 1989 as a way of helping people who might otherwise be arrested when what they really need is helping them through a crisis. Many cities and communities are looking at CAHOOTS as an answer to some of the problems police are creating and/or not helping. The power of White Bird’s CAHOOTS program lies in its community relationships and the ability of first responders to simply ask, ‘How can I support you today?’
People who have had their lives saves by police would highly disagree with you, Brian K. A lot of first responders are actually volunteers who don't get paid. Some are off duty police officers. The idea of trying to take away more first responders is a horrible one, IMO. My brother in law actually had his life saved by first responders three weeks ago. With the amount of traffic accidents, health problems, overdoses and crime that occurs daily, I think we need all the first responders possible. Someone had their life saved today by a first responder while I wrote this post and it could have been a police officer.
Now if we created state programs and unions for careers for first responders then I am for what you are saying BK but without any kind of solid plan then that's just not a very well thought out idea. We take so many things for granted without realizing the dangers of our everyday lives and you never know when you will need someone's help.
I for one have never been crazy about the police and don't like the militarization of them. Unfortunately, that can of worms goes further than the racist justice system alone. Large weapons manufacturers would lose a great deal of money and they will most likely fight at all cost to avoid those funds being deterred.
IMO, the country needs to be reconstructed from the foundation up. Everything thing else is just trash and needs to be rebuilt.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
Are the calls to defund
Are the calls to defund police before enacting effective gun control policies a case of putting the cart before the horse?
It seems that having so many guns loose in society with an inability of police to deter their criminal use is a recipe for disaster. I would like to see money being used for police enforcement redistributed to other social services like low cost housing, mental health services and public education and health, but maybe we need to take care of the glut of guns in our society first?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Stop and frisk profiling
Stop and frisk profiling
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Two totally separate issues.
Two totally separate issues.
One is a constitutional test at every turn.
The other is just a matter of reprioritizing public services and resulting financial accountability.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
They are not separate issues.
They are not separate issues. If there are a large amount of guns on the streets with no deterrent, armed crime will increase. You can't sell a defund the police platform without assuring the general public and businesses that they will not be at greater risk.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Police don't stop "armed
Police don't stop "armed crimes" though, Dave. They really don't even "deter". They respond after the fact and investigate.
crime statistics are a measure of police activity only, not actual criminal acts.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: intentionally blank
> It seems that having so
> It seems that having so many guns loose in society with an inability of police to deter their criminal use is a recipe for disaster.
On the surface, that sounds well-reasoned, but it also seems to disregard its own premise. We already have "so many guns loose in society", and that's with a police force that's heavily armed, unaccountable in many ways, and mostly unchecked. Following your reasoning, it almost seems to suggest that the police need more power, not less of it.
Defunding the police doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all, but demilitarizing them sure does.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Militarization of the police
Militarization of the police comes by way of money, mike. Money for training, equipping, and implementing.
Demilitarizing is an actual component of defunding.
Yes, we still require criminal investigation and public safety. Defunding (restructuring) is different than abolishing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: intentionally blank
Demilitarizing can be a
Demilitarizing can be a component of defunding, Bss, but demilitarization can also occur through the reallocation of police resources, which doesn't necessarily require defunding.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: intentionally blank
I think we need to define
I think we need to define some terms. Here's the definition of "defunding" that describes where I'm coming from:
Edit: When I mentioned reallocation of police resources in my previous post, what I meant was to move funds from things like weapons and riot gear to other police programs, like community-based policing
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Okay, how? Name a few ways...
Agree with the definition mike.
and I maintain that individual gun control is a totally separate issue. Like, another planet entirely.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
the % of municipalities'
the % of municipalitie's budget going to police is not a good use of resources.
especially when the tax payer gets to pay for all the lawsuits the organized police gangs generate.
we seem to have a HUGE problem of right-winger/racists that are a systemic part of many police depts.
how do we address this?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sun so hot, clouds so low
Legalize all drugs. Defund
Legalize all drugs. Defund organized crime. Is it really 2020 and human nature is still a crime?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
https://medium.com/imember
https://medium.com/imember-times/we-know-how-to-fix-policing-in-america-...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I thought the "defund police,
I thought the "defund police," movement, in general, wasn't about getting rid of the police. It's about no longer using them as the first responders for everything, and instead better funding the other, more appropriate first responders. For instance, when someone calls 911, and it's for someone having a psychotic breakdown, mental health professionals will be dispatched instead of the police. As we know, many with mental illnesses are victims of police violence. We have over-funded the police and asked them to do things that they aren't equipped for, nor should they ever do. Defund the police so their sole job is to serve and protect, and reallocate so that the proper people are doing all the other stuff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Redirecting some funds to
Redirecting some funds to something like our CAHOOTS is the best idea that will come of this. CAHOOTS stands for Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets and has been functioning since 1989 as a way of helping people who might otherwise be arrested when what they really need is helping them through a crisis. Many cities and communities are looking at CAHOOTS as an answer to some of the problems police are creating and/or not helping. The power of White Bird’s CAHOOTS program lies in its community relationships and the ability of first responders to simply ask, ‘How can I support you today?’
Google it. Check this link for direct info: https://whitebirdclinic.org/services/cahoots/cahoots-in-the-news/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
please direct a large portion
please direct a large portion of funds to mental health services and intervention. thanks
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
People who have had their
People who have had their lives saves by police would highly disagree with you, Brian K. A lot of first responders are actually volunteers who don't get paid. Some are off duty police officers. The idea of trying to take away more first responders is a horrible one, IMO. My brother in law actually had his life saved by first responders three weeks ago. With the amount of traffic accidents, health problems, overdoses and crime that occurs daily, I think we need all the first responders possible. Someone had their life saved today by a first responder while I wrote this post and it could have been a police officer.
Now if we created state programs and unions for careers for first responders then I am for what you are saying BK but without any kind of solid plan then that's just not a very well thought out idea. We take so many things for granted without realizing the dangers of our everyday lives and you never know when you will need someone's help.
I for one have never been crazy about the police and don't like the militarization of them. Unfortunately, that can of worms goes further than the racist justice system alone. Large weapons manufacturers would lose a great deal of money and they will most likely fight at all cost to avoid those funds being deterred.
IMO, the country needs to be reconstructed from the foundation up. Everything thing else is just trash and needs to be rebuilt.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: intentionally blank
This thread makes me think
This thread makes me think about a Freudian Slip made by hizzoner Richard J. Daley during the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago:
Those infamous words were uttered more than 50 years ago, but that's the world we live in today.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I didn't come up with that
I didn't come up with that definition of "defunding police." If I'm incorrect on what a I've been reading it means, that's fine.
Again, from my understanding it's not about decreasing first responders, it's about diversifying the categories of first responders.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
america believes in hedge
america believes in hedge fund managers, not 1st responders...