Sick, sick, sick. A Valentine's Day gift to the firearms industry that enjoys a bump in sales after tragedies like is. This murderous POS topped Al Capone's infamous massacre.
I guess other countries around the world have a handle on mental health care, because the US is the only county where this happens with such frequency.
Every day, 46 children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.
Every day, 7 children and teens die from gun violence:
4 are murdered
2 die from suicide
Every day, 40 children and teens are shot and survive:
31 injured in an attack
1 survives a suicide attempt
8 shot unintentionally
Asking this simple question is an important step every parent can take to help keep their child safe, and possibly save their child’s life. Read more about Asking Saves Kids (ASK).
Note: Numbers may not sum because of rounding of CDC averages.
Every Day on Average (all ages)
Every day, 315 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.
Every day, 93 people die from gun violence:
32 are murdered
58 die from suicide
1 killed unintentionally
1 killed by legal intervention
1 died but was intent unknown
Every day, 222 people are shot and survive:
164 injured in an attack
10 survive a suicide attempt
45 shot unintentionally
3 are shot in a legal intervention
It's time for Congress to finish the job and expand Brady background checks to stop criminals and other dangerous people from getting guns in America. Learn more and sign the Finish the Job petition.
In One Year on Average (ages 0-19)
17,012 American children and teensare shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, or by police intervention.
2,647 kids die from gun violence:
1,565 murdered
907 die from suicide
116 killed unintentionally
27 killed by legal intervention
32 die but intent was unknown
14,365 kids survive gun injuries:
11,321 injured in an attack
232 survive a suicide attempt
2,747 shot unintentionally
65 shot in a legal intervention
In America, 1 out of 3 homes with kids have guns and nearly 1.7 million children live in a home with an unlocked, loaded gun. Talking to children about the dangers of firearms is not enough. Take Action with Asking Saves Kids Campaign now (ASK).
In One Year on Average (all ages)
114,994 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, or by police intervention.>
33,880 people die from gun violence
11,564 murdered
21,037 die from suicide
544 killed unintentionally
468 killed by legal intervention
267 die but intent was unknown
81,114 people survive gun injuries:
60,041 injured in an attack
3,700 survive a suicide attempt
16,428 shot unintentionally
945 people are shot by legal intervention
Millions of guns are sold every year in “no questions asked” transactions. Experts estimate that 40 percent of guns now sold in America are done so without a Brady background check. Take action with our Finish the Job campaign now.
Gun Death and Injury 5 Year Average Stat Sheet
* The Brady Center averaged the most recent five years of complete data from death certificates (2011-2015) and estimates of emergency room admissions (2010-2014) available via CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control's Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System, www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/. Data retrieved 1.3.17 and 4.29.16 respectively. Numbers may not sum to 100% because of rounding of CDC averages.
One of my friends belongs to a local gun club and is really passionate about his guns. I would describe him as being slightly left of center overall with a good, thoughtful head on his shoulders.
We were discussing the gun debate recently and he pointed out how the large majority (I forget the specific percentage) of deaths from firearms are from suicide which suggests that the problem stems ultimately from a mental health perspective.
We need a major paradigm shift in regards to how we manage our addiction and mental health problems. I would describe myself as being for gun restrictions and can't stand the NRA but I think it's a little shortsighted when everyone cries about the guns, guns, guns when our society breaks and grinds people to insanity on a daily basis.
Sure, lets give easy access to killing machines(ar15 was designed to kill people) while we figure out how to cure these broken people. So yes, it is in essence the guns.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, We need to move forward on all fronts - guns, mental illness, better police training, housing, jobs, etc. Currently we may be going backwards or standing still wrt these problems.
^ Yea definitely not one or the other. Like I said, I support sensible gun laws and all of that stuff and am frustrated like most of you. I don't hear people crying out about our inadequate approach to mental health and addiction problems enough but maybe I'm just not hearing it. We can do better. It blows my mind that when a US citizen commits an atrocity it's "Thoughts and Prayers- what can we do though?" but when an immigrant does something awful it's a call to arms and immigration overhaul rhetoric is crammed down our throats.
Since we're just standing still and will continue to do so the right start would be to ban assault rifles. We need strong legislation to fully repeal the second amendment. At that point a compromise will be made.
Mentally ill person with a knife --- kills 1, wounds 3
Mentally ill person with an assault rifle -- kills 17 people, injures a dozen more
I agree that our mental health and addiction services are a joke. Until we can find a way to solve that problem we sure as shit shouldn't arm them with assault rifles!
>> Who gets to be called mentally ill and by whom?
Your state can report you (the typical threshold is involuntary commitment to mental health treatment, but it varies by state):
Adjudicated as a mental defective means people who — “as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease” — lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, or are a danger to themselves or someone else. It also includes people found insane by a court in a criminal case, or found incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.
States can report those individuals to the NICS database used by federally licensed firearms dealers to screen for prohibited gun buyers.
Social Security Administration can't:
The Social Security Administration is no longer required to submit the names of certain mentally disabled beneficiaries to a federal agency that conducts gun background checks.
>>when our society breaks and grinds people to insanity on a daily basis
Well said. And there are seemingly infinite avenues to do it - money, media, society....just pick any one.
Most cushy country on earth, yet we're the most selfish and violent by far. Ignorance rules. If you believe the news anyway.
I used to think the 'kill your TV' people were nutso, but in hindsight, they were no doubt onto something and way ahead of the times.
Going to get worse before it gets better.... IF it gets better. I fear the iPad generation when they come of age is going to make the Millenials look like altruistic overachievers in comparison.
No worries... everyone just keep working, paying, grinding, buying, and reproducing! Bonus points for blind allegiance to either side, attacking/suppressing dissenting opinions, and adding to the societal divide. And triple bonus for drugging the children! :/
was just talking earlier about how eventually politicians (prob more so Republicans) will use the “normalization” of these shootings as talking points in speeches. Saying “This happens all time” “Will happen with or without gun control.”
It means if you watch the awful shit the media foists on us daily, it's easy to come to the conclusion that there is nothing good left in the world anymore.
I'm saying the true level of ignorance displayed and discussed is outrageously disproportionate, along with the focus it gets. They perpetuate such a stunning brand of ignorance.
I'm actually not sure if more people suck in modern times or if the world is just smaller and it seems that way, but it's a feedback loop and the shit we're being fed is downright DESTRUCTIVE. They don't even focus on anything but shit. And people continue to consume. Blows my mind, TBH. Every news anchor who talks about shootings for days for a paycheck is way more culpable for the latest shooting than the NRA, in my eyes.
The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.
"Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel called for giving law enforcement more power to detain people who make threats.
“What I’m asking our lawmakers to do is go back to places like Tallahassee and Washington, D.C., to give police the power,” the sheriff said, to detain people who make graphic threats or post disturbing material online, and bring them involuntarily to mental health professionals to be examined."
I'm not blaming Millenials.... but many folks like to... which I actually think is silly. You can't blame the product of a failure for the failure itself.
I'm just saying we have a more detached, self centered, and less traditionally socialized generation coming up in even more pressure and worse economically viable times after them.
Like it or not, for a child in school today, school shootings are very much a 'normal' thing in their world. For as generally rare as they are, it practically saturates the world every time (by choice it seems), and we allow it to continue feeding until it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Your sons school is safe. Until you turn on the news or talk to someone who wants to blame the NRA. What about the media force feeding stress, fear, misery, and ignorance down our throats?
I really cannot imagine what broken thoughts go on in their little minds nowadays with this crap constantly in the background. If I had a toddler around, I'd almost rather have porno on in the family room over network news.
If we want to watch shit partisan news detailing all the vile things in the world under a microscope, fine... but common sense says it should at least be rated R. It's simply not fit for growing minds. Or any mind really. Garbage in, garbage out.
Statistically speaking, as looney and repulsive as the whole school shooting fad is, they are still very much safe...
Truthfully, before society and news started droning on 24/7 about every ratings-grabbing tragedy, they were probably more likely to get struck by lightening than harmed at school.
But also safe to say their chances of meeting such tragic harm are increasing with every future event/broadcast. Pretty sure any response we have had to date is merely fueling the fire after the fact. The sensational focus and constant attention it gets is WAY more dangerous and to blame than any lobbying group, IMNSHO.
At this point I feel like it's almost become a media-driven trend. SMH.
Maybe if we didn't constantly make it the issue-du-jour we could at least rest a little easier knowing at least we aren't doing anything to risk planting more seeds or otherwise perpetuating it.
Regarding that chart about what type of guns are responsible for deaths....per that chart "other guns", meaning not rifles, handguns, or shotguns, supposedly account for about 1/3 of all gun deaths. What are these "other guns" which are supposedly so prevalent? Bearing in mind that AR-15s are rifles. Uzis are classified as pistols but you can make the case that a submachine gun (like an uzi) is a different class. I doubt that the majority of suicides are with Uzis. So either we have a HOLY SHIT TON of Uzis still out there or there is a real problem with blunderbusses and muskets.
BTW, it is still legal to have a Uzi and other machine gun that predates 1986. So, since these are responsible for 1/3 of gun deaths, can we get rid of those?
We've had "easy access" to firearms for 200 years. So it's clearly not as much to do with the problem as some people seem to want to think, IMO.
You just named two root problems yourself. Unfortunately they aren't solved easily, but neither is making guns disappear. I don't get why the most mature constant is suddenly to blame, even in the face of such starkly common and 'new' problems.
Making guns 'harder to get' does not solve our mental health or media coverage problems. As long as we can agree that even a total ban on guns - if it was even possible - doesn't address the root issues and leaves our society still broken and angry, with more rules and pressures.
It's not even about gun laws or the NRA anymore for me. Not even interested in that debate... So much bigger and shittier things happening. Subjugating ourselves to gov't and the forces that make modern life suck just doesn't seem like the best solution to me. Shrug.
STOP FOCUSING ON IT 24/7 and sowing fear while furthering the divide, yes. I don't believe in censorship, but something's gotta give. Maybe a limit on coverage? What if we imposed limits so that they only get a set time per event to display the horrors to further their agendas while sowing fear and misery? It does not need to be overreported 24/7 and that ISN'T helping.
One kid yesterday said he stayed calm because he remembered what he was taught during an active shooter drill. Sick world we are living in when an active shooter drill in schools is actually a thing.
I don't have the easy broad sweeping answers that everyone likes to throw out there...But there was a time it didn't happen so frequently. Or at least that's how it felt.Why DOES it happen so frequently?? I don't know... but can we talk about how much more infrequently it happened (or seemed to happen) before it became 'a thing' after our post 9/11 style police state and reporting 24/7 came on the scene???
I'd like to go back to that please. And I'm not trying to make this a gun control debate, but guns were overall 'easier' to get even 20 years ago.
I'd like to understand and address why people suck. And the NRA or a hunk of metal is just not what comes to mind first when I'm looking to solve that problem.
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
What's beyond remarkably similar (and seems to have taken on a perfect template format now), is how they do it, where they go to do it, and how we report on it after. It's remarkably similar that every damaged asshole who wants to make a name for himself now goes to a school or other public place hoping to get on the 6 o'clock news.
Thats really some twisted logic. I link a Daily Wire article and then you accuse me of only getting my news from Shapiro who as you must know is very Jewish. So just what does a website run buy a jewish guy have to do with stormfront a group that would most certainly like to kill the jewish guy. I guess am a chump as none of that crap you spewed made any sense to me.
No Ender they are scarier than nuclear war drills. Those were a propaganda thing the government made up so we'd fear the commies. No one would have been safer if they happened or not. Hiding under your desk or in the basement wasn't going to save anyone from a nuclear war. Active shooters are real things in our schools these days.
Lockdown drills are the new duck and cover. And that always bothered me to think about even though I didn't go through them when I was a young'in... same thing...
Massive negative focus and hysteria, based mostly on a statistically irrelevant chance of tragedy. Just sowing fear and attention disproportionate to the actual threat itself. Making people THINK and feel like they're doing something constructive when they're really not and have no control. Rinse>repeat.
Making people think about it way more than they have to to the point it just becomes a overbearing dark negative force for some, while doing no real good. For the real sickos, it could even end up serving as motivation.
We have an entire generation of kids coming up in a world where they think about getting shot at school almost constantly. Think about that.... Jesus. I feel for them, I really do. But living and growing up like that seems like it almost sucks more than actually getting shot. 1 in a billion will actually experience it, but everyone has to live under the fear constantly until it maybe happens to them. Horrible.
Unless the motive you're referring to is the desire to kill a large number of people, I'd have to disagree.
And yes the killing tool is the same. Perhaps restricting access to the killing tool would help. You know, like they do in other countries, where this doesn't happen.
We have restricted access. We also had restricted access - a Federal ban even - on alcohol for a time which is a consumable liquid. Didn't work.
If access could be universally restricted in such a way as to actually work, I might be able to consider it.
But in reality, restricted access just means the same 300+ million guns in America with the hope that evildoers suddenly develop a conscience and start to play by the rules.
Even with a some sort of sweeping ban, the guns will exist in staggering numbers for generations to come. Problem NOT solved. If people are still pissed/nuts/damaged they'll likely still find a way.
If getting rid of them all at once was an option, it MIGHT work towards solving the public mass shooting problem. I'm talking like a miraculous instant evaporation of firearms in North America. Hell we might as wll make it the whole world if you can manage to figure out how to do on one continent.
Vivala, You make quite a few good points. Unfortunately it seems there is to much hate for many to actually think about the fairly realistic scenarios you have stated. In this particular case it looks like yet again the FBI dropped the ball. The shooter was reported to them with his actual name and screenshot of him posting to youtube a comment saying he was going to be a pro school shooter. The FBI now claims they could not ascertain his identity. Perhaps they are to busy chasing the muh russia story. I would like to see better integration with mental health and doctors with some sort of reporting system that will flag and block attempted sales to people whom are thought to be possibly unsafe with firearms. Having said that yes I know we have a similar system but it needs to be more robust and absolutely has to include a way for people to appeal a denial in some fashion that allows due process. In almost all of these cases there are major underlying mental issues and that's where the focus should be.
Oh and atiex seeing as you wont look at the daily wire how about this from the WaPo saying the same thing are they fake newz too? Perhaps they should go to stormfront also? Don't forget to let Bezos know!
Woobs, how do other countries keep firearms away from the mental ill?
Honestly I have no clue but you would think/hope someone in gov. is looking at how they deal with it. Throw in the fact that we have a 2nd amendment that gives us the right and it becomes a bit more complicated. I do know most countries don't have such a right so placing restrictions can be a simpler task. I don't profess to have all or any answers but I can connect the dots and see most of these shooters are not well in the head.
Active shooter drills are different from duck and cover in that ducking and covering does absolutely nothing to protect you from a nuclear bomb and learning how to be calm and orderly and working through the best places/ways to hide, escape, and seek help in the event of a shooting incident in this very building is actually potentially useful.
Japan has bucketloads of mentally ill people. Forests full of dead who committed suicide. Just recently there was a mass stabbing. Why don't they have just as much of a problem with death by firearm as in the USA?
Read about Australia. I mean READ about it in detail. What percentage they actually got, what types of firearms were actually turned in, and how much it cost them.
I will link some solid statistical info when I get back, but it's NOT what you think. I crunched some basic numbers once to see how it would relate... and if we did the same thing with the same success rate, we'd still have more guns on our streets than you can imagine. They actually collected 600,000 guns (majority shotguns and .22's)... at an estimated cost of $500 million in the first wave in '96.
It's not even biased opinion. Snopes and even Wikipedia both debunk that pipedream in seconds. You are being lied to whenever people talk about Australia's program being a massive success or a dream come true, and played for a fool when anyone says it could work here. Even the correlation to the decrease in crime was spurious at best.
What about the ammo tax? What would we do with that money besides allowing gov't crooks another revenue stream to waste and steal? Also, pretty sure this is a punitive tax we're talking about here, and some people might have issue with that. Personally, I don't care... but I have a little bit of objection to the belief that increasing taxes fixes a damn thing... ever. ;P
If your morals or the threat of life in jail or death doesn't stop you, I don't think a 50 cent tax on a bullet is going to make any difference. It might actually help shave a few points of Chicago's murder rate, but I don't see a guy like Paddock choking over extra sales tax.
Admit it, we want people not to have the ability to shoot, however it can be pulled off. That's what we all want and the only real solution. Just happens to be impossible on a hundred different fronts, and making law abiding citizens suffer extra expense is not even fair. Especially while the nuts and criminals will still have access to close to the same 300 million guns.
FUCK GUNS, FUCK THE GUN CONTROL DEBATE and the SAME OLD SHIT we always have. People are broken. Increased taxes are not an answer! Facepalm.
Sigh. I told you I really didn't want this to devolve into the same old shit of gun control debate. But whatever it takes to deflect from the fact that some people suck, many are ignorant, and most don't think for themselves anymore when it comes to politics and media! Fuuuck!
A tax on ammo may limit the number of rounds a person can afford to purchase.
The money could go to the national/state debt, or maybe infrastructure repair?
Re: Australia, any number of guns taken off the street is a good thing. There is no one solution that will eliminate the problem, but a limited success is better than "thoughts and prayers"
>Admit it, we want people not to have the ability to shoot
You are wrong. I used to own firearms, my friends and relatives are hunters.
Nothing will solve the problem completely, so folks like you use that to justify inaction.
Regarding Japan: They have a MUCH higher social order and even respect for family and society. Many of those suicides are shame-based or otherwise an attempt to preserve the honor of your family. You cannot even apply that here - BUT I WISH WE COULD. That's what I'm getting at we REALLY need.
In Japanese society the lowest of the low is a piece of shit who isn't self-responsible or brings dishonor to their family. Pretty sure that plays a role. Their brand of mentally ill in Japan is drastically different than American-style crazy. They even have legal and social standards that speak to profiting responsibly, not appearing too greedy, and ones affect on their comrades/society I'd LOVE to see some of that apply here!
Laws can't teach morals, responsibility, and decency. I wish they could. :/
It's nothing personal. Not you per se... but EVERYONE. We want people not to be able to do this. But taking away their tool of choice is really the best answer most can come up with, even though it's impossible, unfair, and also goes against a major historical foundation of our existence. The rest just comes off like over reacting or grasping at straws and none of it is going to solve the fact that America pales in a social sense when compared to other First World nations. When do we stop getting dumber and counting on gov't to regulate what used to be decency and common sense among humans??
Inaction sucks and the gun control debate has been going nowhere fast forever and things are getting worse... so I'm for a bullet tax. Now can we talk about how can we maybe responsibly check these miserable fucks selling horrific tabloids of death and conflict every night for a profit while they obviously feed the downward spiral while making us all broke?
How CLUELESS Are These Gun Sellers at Stores Selling CRAZY Guns and Bullets ! BLOOD On Your HANDS Too ! FACT !
We Need a STORMIN NORMAN Type OUTSIDE OF Politics TO STAND UP And Rally The People ! WE THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT TAKE THIS CRAP ANYMORE ! Sorry NRA Congress AND Blood NRA Money ! #MadAsHell
I'm a 2nd amendment supporter, but very willing to negotiate what "regulated militia" means, since my research shows it was about controlling slave rebellions / unruly natives, and usually referring to white professionals of a local area (Biz owners, Docs, etc). There are many forms of regulation out there that have been discussed (as you all know too well), and the counter arguments on why they won't work (as you also know quite well). So i'll take the opposite approach with this meme...
after all, guns are just a tool... families are not (well, a few of mine are, but that's another conversation...)
>> I'm a 2nd amendment supporter, but very willing to negotiate what "regulated militia" means
Why would you negotiate with anyone? SCOTUS already decided.
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.
The next question for the SCOTUS to decide is whether modern sporting rifles like the AR-15 are covered under Heller. I think there is a split in the circuits on that question, which might prompt the Supremes to weigh in. There are some eight million in circulation, so they could come down on finding they are constitutionaly protected.
And now for his next act Don the Con will declare that we need such a bill, only one that is better and bigger. and then it will never happen, much like how he rescinded DACA and has no intention of reinstating it.
How do other countries keep guns away from the mental I'll?
>Honestly I have no clue but you would think/hope someone in gov. is looking at how they deal with it. Throw in the fact that we have a 2nd amendment that gives us the right and it becomes a bit more complicated.<
Woobs, you have no answer because this is not a mental health issue. This is a gun control issue.
Vivala, the NRA is complicit because they lobby against even the most popular/common sense gun laws. Plus, the NRA will attack any politician who votes in favor of any gun control legislation.
We don't have to pick one or the other. Both are legal products that, when misused, can cause injury or death. As can many other legal products. They have to be/are regulated so that people who are likely to misuse them have a more difficult time doing so.
With alcohol, we've done about as much as we can do with legislation (we tried to ban it; didn't work) - the push needs to (still) be on the education side.
With guns, there are things we could do legislatively, but most of those are blocked by the second amendment, the NRA, and their whores in Congress.
I don't see any solution, Obviously we gotta keep working on both of these issues, but I don't see anything changing anytime soon.
Just took a peek over the fence at the Fox News website, and they are HAMMERING the FBI for missing obvious signs this shooter was a threat. Here's some sample headlines:
"Alleged Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz was reported to FBI, cops, school -- but warning signs missed"
"tucker carlson tonight...Could the FBI have stopped Nikolas Cruz?"
OH, the irony. The Foxbots are using this to discredit the FBI. Yet, this will only empower the FBI to grab guns...LOL.
My kid's Mom works on a bus with mentally disabled children and the bus driver is a hardcore right wing veteran. She walks on the bus this morning and this is on display for all the kids to look at boarding the bus. I personally think it's completely uncalled for for this guy to make a political statement to a bunch of mentally disabled children two days after such a massive school shooting. Thoughts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jazfish
The fuck.
The fuck.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
17 now........
17 now........
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Thom?
Thom?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
yes very sad
yes very sad
thanks for the thread
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
6.You shall not murder.
6.You shall not murder.
part of the 10 Commandments ~ Educate anyone ~~ Pontifex
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
why are american school kids
why are american school kids so fucked up that this behavior is now normalized?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
> this behavior is now
> this behavior is now normalized?
yeah its normal
lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Chacho acts like a psycho.
Chacho acts like a psycho.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
get a clue
get a clue
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Localcountyline
Hey Brochachi! lol
Hey Brochachi!
lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
hi simpleton
hi simpleton
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Sick, sick, sick. A
Sick, sick, sick. A Valentine's Day gift to the firearms industry that enjoys a bump in sales after tragedies like is. This murderous POS topped Al Capone's infamous massacre.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Localcountyline
lol
lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
This is really NOT the time
This is really NOT the time to be talking about this, this is the time for thoughts and prayers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ~bus~
When is the time?
When is the time?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
How the rest of the country
How Republican-land looks at it (heard on radio this morning locally):
http://www.wwl.com/tag/public-opinion
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
I guess other countries
I guess other countries around the world have a handle on mental health care, because the US is the only county where this happens with such frequency.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Highnote
We live in a shit hole
We live in a shit hole country.
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Home» Gun Violence » Key Gun Violence Statistics*
Key Gun Violence Statistics*
1.9K
Every Day on Average (ages 0-19)
Every day, 46 children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.
Every day, 7 children and teens die from gun violence:
4 are murdered
2 die from suicide
Every day, 40 children and teens are shot and survive:
31 injured in an attack
1 survives a suicide attempt
8 shot unintentionally
Asking this simple question is an important step every parent can take to help keep their child safe, and possibly save their child’s life. Read more about Asking Saves Kids (ASK).
Note: Numbers may not sum because of rounding of CDC averages.
Every Day on Average (all ages)
Every day, 315 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.
Every day, 93 people die from gun violence:
32 are murdered
58 die from suicide
1 killed unintentionally
1 killed by legal intervention
1 died but was intent unknown
Every day, 222 people are shot and survive:
164 injured in an attack
10 survive a suicide attempt
45 shot unintentionally
3 are shot in a legal intervention
It's time for Congress to finish the job and expand Brady background checks to stop criminals and other dangerous people from getting guns in America. Learn more and sign the Finish the Job petition.
In One Year on Average (ages 0-19)
17,012 American children and teensare shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, or by police intervention.
2,647 kids die from gun violence:
1,565 murdered
907 die from suicide
116 killed unintentionally
27 killed by legal intervention
32 die but intent was unknown
14,365 kids survive gun injuries:
11,321 injured in an attack
232 survive a suicide attempt
2,747 shot unintentionally
65 shot in a legal intervention
In America, 1 out of 3 homes with kids have guns and nearly 1.7 million children live in a home with an unlocked, loaded gun. Talking to children about the dangers of firearms is not enough. Take Action with Asking Saves Kids Campaign now (ASK).
In One Year on Average (all ages)
114,994 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, or by police intervention.>
33,880 people die from gun violence
11,564 murdered
21,037 die from suicide
544 killed unintentionally
468 killed by legal intervention
267 die but intent was unknown
81,114 people survive gun injuries:
60,041 injured in an attack
3,700 survive a suicide attempt
16,428 shot unintentionally
945 people are shot by legal intervention
Millions of guns are sold every year in “no questions asked” transactions. Experts estimate that 40 percent of guns now sold in America are done so without a Brady background check. Take action with our Finish the Job campaign now.
Gun Death and Injury 5 Year Average Stat Sheet
* The Brady Center averaged the most recent five years of complete data from death certificates (2011-2015) and estimates of emergency room admissions (2010-2014) available via CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control's Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System, www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/. Data retrieved 1.3.17 and 4.29.16 respectively. Numbers may not sum to 100% because of rounding of CDC averages.
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Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
No; we are the only country
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
One of my friends belongs to
One of my friends belongs to a local gun club and is really passionate about his guns. I would describe him as being slightly left of center overall with a good, thoughtful head on his shoulders.
We were discussing the gun debate recently and he pointed out how the large majority (I forget the specific percentage) of deaths from firearms are from suicide which suggests that the problem stems ultimately from a mental health perspective.
We need a major paradigm shift in regards to how we manage our addiction and mental health problems. I would describe myself as being for gun restrictions and can't stand the NRA but I think it's a little shortsighted when everyone cries about the guns, guns, guns when our society breaks and grinds people to insanity on a daily basis.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Sure, lets give easy access
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
It doesn't have to be one or
It doesn't have to be one or the other, We need to move forward on all fronts - guns, mental illness, better police training, housing, jobs, etc. Currently we may be going backwards or standing still wrt these problems.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
^ Yea definitely not one or
^ Yea definitely not one or the other. Like I said, I support sensible gun laws and all of that stuff and am frustrated like most of you. I don't hear people crying out about our inadequate approach to mental health and addiction problems enough but maybe I'm just not hearing it. We can do better. It blows my mind that when a US citizen commits an atrocity it's "Thoughts and Prayers- what can we do though?" but when an immigrant does something awful it's a call to arms and immigration overhaul rhetoric is crammed down our throats.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Since we're just standing
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Mentally ill person with a
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
^ Jonas.
^ Jonas.
Keep in mind I'm "on your side". A couple points to consider though:
Knife Attack Kills 19 in Japan:
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world/japan-knife-attack-deaths/index.html
Did you forget about this?
Also,
(Source: BBC)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Who gets to be called
Who gets to be called mentally ill and by whom?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
^ I don't really have an
^ I don't really have an answer. Just contributing my .02 cents to the commentary. It's a messy situation all around with no clear solution.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Who gets to be called
>> Who gets to be called mentally ill and by whom?
Your state can report you (the typical threshold is involuntary commitment to mental health treatment, but it varies by state):
Adjudicated as a mental defective means people who — “as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease” — lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, or are a danger to themselves or someone else. It also includes people found insane by a court in a criminal case, or found incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.
States can report those individuals to the NICS database used by federally licensed firearms dealers to screen for prohibited gun buyers.
Social Security Administration can't:
The Social Security Administration is no longer required to submit the names of certain mentally disabled beneficiaries to a federal agency that conducts gun background checks.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/trump-nixed-gun-control-rule/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>States can report those
>>>>>States can report those individuals to the NICS database
They don't have to.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Painted Mandolin
Scumbag Politician Bought and
Scumbag Politician Bought and Sold by the NRA
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ltk173
1965: 200 mil
1965: 200 mil
2015: 325 mil
Too much, too fast.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
>>when our society breaks and
>>when our society breaks and grinds people to insanity on a daily basis
Well said. And there are seemingly infinite avenues to do it - money, media, society....just pick any one.
Most cushy country on earth, yet we're the most selfish and violent by far. Ignorance rules. If you believe the news anyway.
I used to think the 'kill your TV' people were nutso, but in hindsight, they were no doubt onto something and way ahead of the times.
Going to get worse before it gets better.... IF it gets better. I fear the iPad generation when they come of age is going to make the Millenials look like altruistic overachievers in comparison.
No worries... everyone just keep working, paying, grinding, buying, and reproducing! Bonus points for blind allegiance to either side, attacking/suppressing dissenting opinions, and adding to the societal divide. And triple bonus for drugging the children! :/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
>>>>Ignorance rules. If you
>>>>Ignorance rules. If you believe the news anyway.
What’s that mean, the news says it’s better to be ignorant? I don’t understand
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
mental illness, a human thing
mental illness, a human thing, not just American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_mental_disorders
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
This behavior is now
This behavior is now normalized>>
was just talking earlier about how eventually politicians (prob more so Republicans) will use the “normalization” of these shootings as talking points in speeches. Saying “This happens all time” “Will happen with or without gun control.”
Sad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
It means if you watch the
It means if you watch the awful shit the media foists on us daily, it's easy to come to the conclusion that there is nothing good left in the world anymore.
I'm saying the true level of ignorance displayed and discussed is outrageously disproportionate, along with the focus it gets. They perpetuate such a stunning brand of ignorance.
I'm actually not sure if more people suck in modern times or if the world is just smaller and it seems that way, but it's a feedback loop and the shit we're being fed is downright DESTRUCTIVE. They don't even focus on anything but shit. And people continue to consume. Blows my mind, TBH. Every news anchor who talks about shootings for days for a paycheck is way more culpable for the latest shooting than the NRA, in my eyes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>>mental illness, a human
>>mental illness, a human thing, not just American
Then why are other countries not plagued with mass shootings?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> I fear the iPad
>> I fear the iPad generation when they come of age is going to make the Millenials look like altruistic overachievers in comparison.
Violent crime has been dropping for 25 years. We're safer overall than we were a generation ago. Blaming Millenials is silly.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
They mau be crazy but they're
They may be crazy but they're not stupid.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Sound of Steam and Caffeine
The shooter was one of Trump
The shooter was one of Trump’s “very fine people.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking-news/militia-says-school-shootin...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
https://www.msn.com/en-us
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking-news/florida-governor-vows-to-ke...
Florida governor vows to keep mentally ill from getting guns
"Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel called for giving law enforcement more power to detain people who make threats.
“What I’m asking our lawmakers to do is go back to places like Tallahassee and Washington, D.C., to give police the power,” the sheriff said, to detain people who make graphic threats or post disturbing material online, and bring them involuntarily to mental health professionals to be examined."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
I'm not blaming Millenials...
I'm not blaming Millenials.... but many folks like to... which I actually think is silly. You can't blame the product of a failure for the failure itself.
I'm just saying we have a more detached, self centered, and less traditionally socialized generation coming up in even more pressure and worse economically viable times after them.
Like it or not, for a child in school today, school shootings are very much a 'normal' thing in their world. For as generally rare as they are, it practically saturates the world every time (by choice it seems), and we allow it to continue feeding until it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
My son's school is safe. Why?
My son's school is safe. Why?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Your sons school is safe.
Your sons school is safe. Until you turn on the news or talk to someone who wants to blame the NRA. What about the media force feeding stress, fear, misery, and ignorance down our throats?
I really cannot imagine what broken thoughts go on in their little minds nowadays with this crap constantly in the background. If I had a toddler around, I'd almost rather have porno on in the family room over network news.
If we want to watch shit partisan news detailing all the vile things in the world under a microscope, fine... but common sense says it should at least be rated R. It's simply not fit for growing minds. Or any mind really. Garbage in, garbage out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
^it's safe until it's not
^it's safe until it's not
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
No. It's safe.
No. It's safe.
And they don't make our kids watch the news, dude.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
About 100K public schools.
About 100K public schools.
About 1 school shooting per week.
About .05 percent chance there will be one at your kids' school in any year.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>No. It's safe.
>>>>>No. It's safe.
No such thing. Sorry.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Statistically speaking, as
Statistically speaking, as looney and repulsive as the whole school shooting fad is, they are still very much safe...
Truthfully, before society and news started droning on 24/7 about every ratings-grabbing tragedy, they were probably more likely to get struck by lightening than harmed at school.
But also safe to say their chances of meeting such tragic harm are increasing with every future event/broadcast. Pretty sure any response we have had to date is merely fueling the fire after the fact. The sensational focus and constant attention it gets is WAY more dangerous and to blame than any lobbying group, IMNSHO.
At this point I feel like it's almost become a media-driven trend. SMH.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
ok. coverage.
ok. coverage.
does not dispute that there are like 28 school shootings since the beginning of the year...
can't have nice things...
can't do anything about nothin'...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Maybe if we didn't constantly
Maybe if we didn't constantly make it the issue-du-jour we could at least rest a little easier knowing at least we aren't doing anything to risk planting more seeds or otherwise perpetuating it.
But that's not good for ratings...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>And they don't make our kids
>And they don't make our kids watch the news, dude.
Irrelevant.
Sure, vivala, the media is to blame. Easy access to firearms has zero to do with the problem.
These shootings happen with such frequency because of
a) mental health issues
b) the media coverage of mass shootings
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Hey, isolated surf guy, it's
Hey, isolated surf guy, it's safe here.
We don't need to move to BFE.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
Regarding that chart about
Regarding that chart about what type of guns are responsible for deaths....per that chart "other guns", meaning not rifles, handguns, or shotguns, supposedly account for about 1/3 of all gun deaths. What are these "other guns" which are supposedly so prevalent? Bearing in mind that AR-15s are rifles. Uzis are classified as pistols but you can make the case that a submachine gun (like an uzi) is a different class. I doubt that the majority of suicides are with Uzis. So either we have a HOLY SHIT TON of Uzis still out there or there is a real problem with blunderbusses and muskets.
BTW, it is still legal to have a Uzi and other machine gun that predates 1986. So, since these are responsible for 1/3 of gun deaths, can we get rid of those?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
Is that guy really suggesting
Is that guy really suggesting that the media stop reporting school shootings?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
We've had "easy access" to
We've had "easy access" to firearms for 200 years. So it's clearly not as much to do with the problem as some people seem to want to think, IMO.
You just named two root problems yourself. Unfortunately they aren't solved easily, but neither is making guns disappear. I don't get why the most mature constant is suddenly to blame, even in the face of such starkly common and 'new' problems.
Making guns 'harder to get' does not solve our mental health or media coverage problems. As long as we can agree that even a total ban on guns - if it was even possible - doesn't address the root issues and leaves our society still broken and angry, with more rules and pressures.
It's not even about gun laws or the NRA anymore for me. Not even interested in that debate... So much bigger and shittier things happening. Subjugating ourselves to gov't and the forces that make modern life suck just doesn't seem like the best solution to me. Shrug.
STOP FOCUSING ON IT 24/7 and sowing fear while furthering the divide, yes. I don't believe in censorship, but something's gotta give. Maybe a limit on coverage? What if we imposed limits so that they only get a set time per event to display the horrors to further their agendas while sowing fear and misery? It does not need to be overreported 24/7 and that ISN'T helping.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Vivala, if it's the media and
Vivala, if it's the media and mental health issues, why is the US the only country where this happens so frequently?
I mean other than the US being the only country with such easy access to firearms.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Keithk1
One kid yesterday said he
One kid yesterday said he stayed calm because he remembered what he was taught during an active shooter drill. Sick world we are living in when an active shooter drill in schools is actually a thing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
good thing the republicans
good thing the republicans rolled back the obamma era mental health restrictions...
because mentally ill need equal 2nd amendment access?
we can't even get universal health insurance. not sure how the fuck we get universal mental health?
why are kids so bummed?
how do you fix it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
Media Push The Claim There
Media Push The Claim There Have Been 18 School Shootings In 2018. Here Are The Facts.
https://www.dailywire.com/node/27165
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
I don't have the easy broad
I don't have the easy broad sweeping answers that everyone likes to throw out there...But there was a time it didn't happen so frequently. Or at least that's how it felt.Why DOES it happen so frequently?? I don't know... but can we talk about how much more infrequently it happened (or seemed to happen) before it became 'a thing' after our post 9/11 style police state and reporting 24/7 came on the scene???
I'd like to go back to that please. And I'm not trying to make this a gun control debate, but guns were overall 'easier' to get even 20 years ago.
I'd like to understand and address why people suck. And the NRA or a hunk of metal is just not what comes to mind first when I'm looking to solve that problem.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
You get all of your news from
Do you get all of your fake news from a chump 30-something Breitbart washout, woobs? Or only some of it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Take that fucking bullshit over to stormfront ya chump
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
So nothing in that article
So nothing in that article was true then? All fake newz? Is your only source the HuffPo?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
Donald J. Trump✔
Donald J. Trump✔@realDonaldTrump
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
Trump blames the kids...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
So now I am a stormfront
So now I am a stormfront white supremacist. Gosh the left is so predictable with the retorts.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Vivala, each murderer has
Vivala, each murderer has their own unique motive, but the their tool of choice is remarkably similar.
And it doesn't happen in other countries because firearms are not as easily accessible in other countries.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
If the shoe fits motherfucker
Hey if the shoe fits
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Exactly. Tool.
Exactly. Tool.
And their motives are remarkably similar too.
What's beyond remarkably similar (and seems to have taken on a perfect template format now), is how they do it, where they go to do it, and how we report on it after. It's remarkably similar that every damaged asshole who wants to make a name for himself now goes to a school or other public place hoping to get on the 6 o'clock news.
Hmmmmm.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Sick world we are living
>> Sick world we are living in when an active shooter drill in schools is actually a thing.
Better than nuclear war drills?
>> What are these "other guns" which are supposedly so prevalent?
The actual FBI report shows 5 categories:
From the numbers, it looks like the posted pie chart combines the "other" and "firearm, type not stated" categories.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
I read the kid was MS-13
I read the kid was MS-13
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
Hey if the shoe fits.
Hey if the shoe fits.
Thats really some twisted logic. I link a Daily Wire article and then you accuse me of only getting my news from Shapiro who as you must know is very Jewish. So just what does a website run buy a jewish guy have to do with stormfront a group that would most certainly like to kill the jewish guy. I guess am a chump as none of that crap you spewed made any sense to me.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Keithk1
No Ender they are scarier
No Ender they are scarier than nuclear war drills. Those were a propaganda thing the government made up so we'd fear the commies. No one would have been safer if they happened or not. Hiding under your desk or in the basement wasn't going to save anyone from a nuclear war. Active shooters are real things in our schools these days.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Lockdown drills are the new
Lockdown drills are the new duck and cover. And that always bothered me to think about even though I didn't go through them when I was a young'in... same thing...
Massive negative focus and hysteria, based mostly on a statistically irrelevant chance of tragedy. Just sowing fear and attention disproportionate to the actual threat itself. Making people THINK and feel like they're doing something constructive when they're really not and have no control. Rinse>repeat.
Making people think about it way more than they have to to the point it just becomes a overbearing dark negative force for some, while doing no real good. For the real sickos, it could even end up serving as motivation.
We have an entire generation of kids coming up in a world where they think about getting shot at school almost constantly. Think about that.... Jesus. I feel for them, I really do. But living and growing up like that seems like it almost sucks more than actually getting shot. 1 in a billion will actually experience it, but everyone has to live under the fear constantly until it maybe happens to them. Horrible.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Keithk1
Statistically irrelevant?
Statistically irrelevant? Tell that to the people suffering today.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Where they go to do it...
Where they go to do it...
Schools
Churches
Places of business
Softball games
Movie theater
Military bases
Concerts
Nightclubs
Restaurants
Seems pretty varied to me.
Unless the motive you're referring to is the desire to kill a large number of people, I'd have to disagree.
And yes the killing tool is the same. Perhaps restricting access to the killing tool would help. You know, like they do in other countries, where this doesn't happen.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
https://www.politico.com
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/15/school-safety-cuts-trump-admin...
Reality check...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Shootings don't happen here.
Shootings don't happen here. We're like a cultured foreign country.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
We have restricted access.
We have restricted access. We also had restricted access - a Federal ban even - on alcohol for a time which is a consumable liquid. Didn't work.
If access could be universally restricted in such a way as to actually work, I might be able to consider it.
But in reality, restricted access just means the same 300+ million guns in America with the hope that evildoers suddenly develop a conscience and start to play by the rules.
Even with a some sort of sweeping ban, the guns will exist in staggering numbers for generations to come. Problem NOT solved. If people are still pissed/nuts/damaged they'll likely still find a way.
If getting rid of them all at once was an option, it MIGHT work towards solving the public mass shooting problem. I'm talking like a miraculous instant evaporation of firearms in North America. Hell we might as wll make it the whole world if you can manage to figure out how to do on one continent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>Hell we might as wll make
>Hell we might as wll make it the whole world if you can manage to figure out how to do on one continent.
You mean something like they did on the continent of Australia?
The solution is not easy or instantaneous, so the effort is futile?
How about a $.50 per round tax on ammo?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
Vivala, You make quite a few
Vivala, You make quite a few good points. Unfortunately it seems there is to much hate for many to actually think about the fairly realistic scenarios you have stated. In this particular case it looks like yet again the FBI dropped the ball. The shooter was reported to them with his actual name and screenshot of him posting to youtube a comment saying he was going to be a pro school shooter. The FBI now claims they could not ascertain his identity. Perhaps they are to busy chasing the muh russia story. I would like to see better integration with mental health and doctors with some sort of reporting system that will flag and block attempted sales to people whom are thought to be possibly unsafe with firearms. Having said that yes I know we have a similar system but it needs to be more robust and absolutely has to include a way for people to appeal a denial in some fashion that allows due process. In almost all of these cases there are major underlying mental issues and that's where the focus should be.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
Oh an atiex seeing as you
Oh and atiex seeing as you wont look at the daily wire how about this from the WaPo saying the same thing are they fake newz too? Perhaps they should go to stormfront also? Don't forget to let Bezos know!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shoo...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Woobs, there are no mental
Woobs, how do other countries keep firearms away from the mental ill?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
Perhaps they are to busy
Perhaps they are to busy chasing the muh russia story.
more likely overwhelmed with conducting security clearances on trumps corrupt white house aides...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
Woobs, how do other countries
Woobs, how do other countries keep firearms away from the mental ill?
Honestly I have no clue but you would think/hope someone in gov. is looking at how they deal with it. Throw in the fact that we have a 2nd amendment that gives us the right and it becomes a bit more complicated. I do know most countries don't have such a right so placing restrictions can be a simpler task. I don't profess to have all or any answers but I can connect the dots and see most of these shooters are not well in the head.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
Active shooter drills are
Active shooter drills are different from duck and cover in that ducking and covering does absolutely nothing to protect you from a nuclear bomb and learning how to be calm and orderly and working through the best places/ways to hide, escape, and seek help in the event of a shooting incident in this very building is actually potentially useful.
Japan has bucketloads of mentally ill people. Forests full of dead who committed suicide. Just recently there was a mass stabbing. Why don't they have just as much of a problem with death by firearm as in the USA?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Read about Australia. I
Read about Australia. I mean READ about it in detail. What percentage they actually got, what types of firearms were actually turned in, and how much it cost them.
I will link some solid statistical info when I get back, but it's NOT what you think. I crunched some basic numbers once to see how it would relate... and if we did the same thing with the same success rate, we'd still have more guns on our streets than you can imagine. They actually collected 600,000 guns (majority shotguns and .22's)... at an estimated cost of $500 million in the first wave in '96.
It's not even biased opinion. Snopes and even Wikipedia both debunk that pipedream in seconds. You are being lied to whenever people talk about Australia's program being a massive success or a dream come true, and played for a fool when anyone says it could work here. Even the correlation to the decrease in crime was spurious at best.
What about the ammo tax? What would we do with that money besides allowing gov't crooks another revenue stream to waste and steal? Also, pretty sure this is a punitive tax we're talking about here, and some people might have issue with that. Personally, I don't care... but I have a little bit of objection to the belief that increasing taxes fixes a damn thing... ever. ;P
If your morals or the threat of life in jail or death doesn't stop you, I don't think a 50 cent tax on a bullet is going to make any difference. It might actually help shave a few points of Chicago's murder rate, but I don't see a guy like Paddock choking over extra sales tax.
Admit it, we want people not to have the ability to shoot, however it can be pulled off. That's what we all want and the only real solution. Just happens to be impossible on a hundred different fronts, and making law abiding citizens suffer extra expense is not even fair. Especially while the nuts and criminals will still have access to close to the same 300 million guns.
FUCK GUNS, FUCK THE GUN CONTROL DEBATE and the SAME OLD SHIT we always have. People are broken. Increased taxes are not an answer! Facepalm.
Sigh. I told you I really didn't want this to devolve into the same old shit of gun control debate. But whatever it takes to deflect from the fact that some people suck, many are ignorant, and most don't think for themselves anymore when it comes to politics and media! Fuuuck!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Chavo
botb, It is because they have
botb, It is because they have very strict gun laws and have for ages nor is it a right to own gun in Japan unlike the US.
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/japan.php
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
A tax on ammo may limit the
A tax on ammo may limit the number of rounds a person can afford to purchase.
The money could go to the national/state debt, or maybe infrastructure repair?
Re: Australia, any number of guns taken off the street is a good thing. There is no one solution that will eliminate the problem, but a limited success is better than "thoughts and prayers"
>Admit it, we want people not to have the ability to shoot
You are wrong. I used to own firearms, my friends and relatives are hunters.
Nothing will solve the problem completely, so folks like you use that to justify inaction.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: vivalavuvuzela
Regarding Japan: They have
Regarding Japan: They have a MUCH higher social order and even respect for family and society. Many of those suicides are shame-based or otherwise an attempt to preserve the honor of your family. You cannot even apply that here - BUT I WISH WE COULD. That's what I'm getting at we REALLY need.
In Japanese society the lowest of the low is a piece of shit who isn't self-responsible or brings dishonor to their family. Pretty sure that plays a role. Their brand of mentally ill in Japan is drastically different than American-style crazy. They even have legal and social standards that speak to profiting responsibly, not appearing too greedy, and ones affect on their comrades/society I'd LOVE to see some of that apply here!
Laws can't teach morals, responsibility, and decency. I wish they could. :/
It's nothing personal. Not you per se... but EVERYONE. We want people not to be able to do this. But taking away their tool of choice is really the best answer most can come up with, even though it's impossible, unfair, and also goes against a major historical foundation of our existence. The rest just comes off like over reacting or grasping at straws and none of it is going to solve the fact that America pales in a social sense when compared to other First World nations. When do we stop getting dumber and counting on gov't to regulate what used to be decency and common sense among humans??
Inaction sucks and the gun control debate has been going nowhere fast forever and things are getting worse... so I'm for a bullet tax. Now can we talk about how can we maybe responsibly check these miserable fucks selling horrific tabloids of death and conflict every night for a profit while they obviously feed the downward spiral while making us all broke?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Huh?
Huh?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
How CLUELESS Are These Gun
How CLUELESS Are These Gun Sellers at Stores Selling CRAZY Guns and Bullets ! BLOOD On Your HANDS Too ! FACT !
We Need a STORMIN NORMAN Type OUTSIDE OF Politics TO STAND UP And Rally The People ! WE THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT TAKE THIS CRAP ANYMORE ! Sorry NRA Congress AND Blood NRA Money ! #MadAsHell
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
we can't have nice things or
we can't have nice things or do anything.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
how come all the shooters are
how come all the shooters are "conservatives"?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
we want our guns. this is the
we want our guns. this is the price we pay for the world we live in.
Loved Mad Max when you were a kid? well guess what? its coming...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> How about a $.50 per round
>> How about a $.50 per round tax on ammo?
So people that shoot 2 or 3 times week as a hobby would pay $100/week and mass shooters would pay a one time tax?
That would stop nothing and punish honest gun owners.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
as long as I can still get
as long as I can still get bump stocks and armor piercing bullets so I can keep my television from being stolen
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
I'm a 2nd amendment supporter
I'm a 2nd amendment supporter, but very willing to negotiate what "regulated militia" means, since my research shows it was about controlling slave rebellions / unruly natives, and usually referring to white professionals of a local area (Biz owners, Docs, etc). There are many forms of regulation out there that have been discussed (as you all know too well), and the counter arguments on why they won't work (as you also know quite well). So i'll take the opposite approach with this meme...
after all, guns are just a tool... families are not (well, a few of mine are, but that's another conversation...)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
> I wish they could. :/
> I wish they could. :/
of course u do
lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> I'm a 2nd amendment
>> I'm a 2nd amendment supporter, but very willing to negotiate what "regulated militia" means
Why would you negotiate with anyone? SCOTUS already decided.
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
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never go against ender in a
never go against ender in a googling competition
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Just Broke Down TEARS
Just Broke Down TEARS Listening to a Mother of a 14 Year Old Lost..
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
I prefer FOIA's
I prefer FOIA's
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
The next question for the
The next question for the SCOTUS to decide is whether modern sporting rifles like the AR-15 are covered under Heller. I think there is a split in the circuits on that question, which might prompt the Supremes to weigh in. There are some eight million in circulation, so they could come down on finding they are constitutionaly protected.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> There are some eight
>> There are some eight million in circulation, so they could come down on finding they are constitutionaly protected.
I agree. The “in common use at the time” qualifier supports that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
In related news...
In related news...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-signs-bill-revoking-...
You go, Donnie.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
And now for his next act Don
And now for his next act Don the Con will declare that we need such a bill, only one that is better and bigger. and then it will never happen, much like how he rescinded DACA and has no intention of reinstating it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
Trump declares blame on both
Trump declares blame on both sides in Parkland, Fla shooting...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: hooper
>>>>>How CLUELESS Are These
>>>>>How CLUELESS Are These Gun Sellers at Stores Selling CRAZY Guns and Bullets ! BLOOD On Your HANDS Too ! FACT !<<<<<
I've been asking this type of question about the production and selling of alcohol for a long time now.
Amazingly when it comes to this topic with alcohol the majority don't feel the same.
People are quick to put responsibility on the drinkers but not on the shooters.
The fact is........more people die by alcohol related accidents/health than by guns.
Where's the outrage?
I hate guns. I hate alcohol.
You can take this stance on a ton of things. In the end it boils down to responsibility of the individuals to control one's self!
And my prayers go out to all those affected.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>>a $.50 per round tax on
>>a $.50 per round tax on ammo?<<
>So people that shoot 2 or 3 times week as a hobby would pay $100/week and mass shooters would pay a one time tax?
That would stop nothing and punish honest gun owners<
I don't care if sport shooters are "punished"
They can still have and shoot their firearms
The money can be used to compensate the victims of gun violence.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>The fact is........more people die by alcohol related accidents/health than by guns.
Where's the outrage?<
MADD was born out of outrage.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
How do other countries keep
How do other countries keep guns away from the mental I'll?
>Honestly I have no clue but you would think/hope someone in gov. is looking at how they deal with it. Throw in the fact that we have a 2nd amendment that gives us the right and it becomes a bit more complicated.<
Woobs, you have no answer because this is not a mental health issue. This is a gun control issue.
Vivala, the NRA is complicit because they lobby against even the most popular/common sense gun laws. Plus, the NRA will attack any politician who votes in favor of any gun control legislation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
We don't have to pick one or
We don't have to pick one or the other. Both are legal products that, when misused, can cause injury or death. As can many other legal products. They have to be/are regulated so that people who are likely to misuse them have a more difficult time doing so.
With alcohol, we've done about as much as we can do with legislation (we tried to ban it; didn't work) - the push needs to (still) be on the education side.
With guns, there are things we could do legislatively, but most of those are blocked by the second amendment, the NRA, and their whores in Congress.
I don't see any solution, Obviously we gotta keep working on both of these issues, but I don't see anything changing anytime soon.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Oh, this is rich.
Oh, this is rich.
Just took a peek over the fence at the Fox News website, and they are HAMMERING the FBI for missing obvious signs this shooter was a threat. Here's some sample headlines:
"Alleged Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz was reported to FBI, cops, school -- but warning signs missed"
"tucker carlson tonight...Could the FBI have stopped Nikolas Cruz?"
OH, the irony. The Foxbots are using this to discredit the FBI. Yet, this will only empower the FBI to grab guns...LOL.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I really likes this one:
I really likes this one:
"LIZ PEEK: After Florida shooting, it's time for conservatives to stand against mass murder"
Way to stick your neck out, Liz Peek!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
My kid's Mom works on a bus
My kid's Mom works on a bus with mentally disabled children and the bus driver is a hardcore right wing veteran. She walks on the bus this morning and this is on display for all the kids to look at boarding the bus. I personally think it's completely uncalled for for this guy to make a political statement to a bunch of mentally disabled children two days after such a massive school shooting. Thoughts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Thoughts?
>> Thoughts?
It's unprofessional. No one wants to be forced to hear your political opinion on the clock.
And that hat is really ugly.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Thoughts
>> Thoughts
If she isn't a union driver, she's probably out of a job come Monday Lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Maybe should be forced to
Maybe should be forced to watch this mom who just lost her 14 year old daughter asking Trump to do something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cmaeYG3EIE