Are rail riders hogging "turns" up front?

I tend to shoo away menacing Octopiii and Giant Squid,  when I snorkel,  in order to interface Peacefully with the Sea - Monkees.

`nobody is taking my spot

I really don't get it. Was enjoying Phil yesterday on the right side, close but not right up front. Super tall guy and his large girl friend decide they need to stand in front of me, squeeze by and kind of pushed my wife to the side. Then they both left, then came back and did it again! I mean, they had the cool clothes on and looked like dead heads... but not much love or kindness. Not even sure what they were trying to do, Phil was about 15 feet away, really need to be closer? And rude to your fellow heads?

I fairly tall and tend to always stand in back so I try not to block someones vision. I may go up front a bit, but tend to retreat to the back. 

I am fond of performers who mix up the upfront GA experience a bit with some sort of lottery system that give each person a chance of getting the best spot. 

But...

there is something to be said about the hardcore element, especially in Europ[e, that has fans lining up over a week ahead of time to get there spot. While I admire their will and desire to be up front, I also question their sanity to camp out for days on end to get those spots. At some of the European Springsteen shows they would have close to 500 people camping out in line until they instituted a fan run line that had you get a number marked on your had with multiple daily check ins. You don't have to stay in line all day and all night but you must be present at check in roll calls or you lose your spot. 

First of all the sound is usually not good there, I have become somewhat of a sound whore since being with Bob...;) 


My take on the folks that absolutely NEED to be right in front of the musicians are that it is all about them wanting to be seen, their all important self serving need overcomes them and takes a back seat to the actual music, very sad...but this is what I have observed. Even at a small venue I go to (Ardmore Music Hall)  a lot, I have observed that some of the regulars feel it is their place and only theirs to be at the edge of the stage !!  I have been shoved and had many a tall person  stand in front of me only to chatter away and spill beer at an annoying and incessant rate when I do want to hit the dance floor, but usually I find a cool spot in the back to get my groove on and have the space I need.



Ned, that is very kind of you and also rare, good on you for being a courteous guy :) All of us short folks thank you !
 

I know, cue up "short people"...lol 

They want to feel like this. How do you post the gif?

chicken shack dude

I will say, there's something about being on the rail that's like nothing else. The feeling of the band playing directly to you with no visual distractions, feeling like you're completely inside the music, even if the sound is a little muddier. I think as a guitar player there's an added element because you can actually see what they're playing. 

It can be a real hassle because of the entitled shoving pricks, not to mention the dancing girls who "just want to stay for one song" and end up never leaving, the inebriates who spill beer on you from behind, the smelly wooks, the occasional yellowshirt with a flashlight, depending on the venue... but there's really nothing like it, for the right show at least. One of my best show experiences of the last several years was seeing DSO at a small theater with no barricade rail, front and center with elbows on the stage. Face completely melted.

Everybody wants ta get inta da act! , Durante

People who do it love it, that's why they do it.

It seems a little ridiculous to lump them all into one group or mentality.

Lance is right - as long as people are being judged - it's unfair to lump all assholes into one group when there are all different kinds.

The asshole move is to go bye someone and when they get out of your way you stop and take there space. Asshole move at any show. 

What we all need is Bernie Socialism on the rail. Everyone gets a turn and everyone gets a trophy for just showing up.

^^^^^^Someones puss puss is sore

 >>>>>Are rail riders hogging "turns" up front?

No, they only take one turn.

Unfortunately, that one turn lasts all night.

There was a picture of 'lope G at a dead and co show on the rail as usual. Made me laugh.

Live from the rail

i believe that being close up you are able to visually experience how the band is interacting with each other which helps contextualize what you're hearing.  for less sophisticated ears it's easier to differentiate who's playing what.

that being said, in a small place like txr, i'd think only sociopaths would stand directly in front of the band.

Agree Trebs!

hogging turns upfront? wtf? there are no turns upfront...you get there first, its your spot, you move to piss or something, you loose it.

OP, why would there be "turns"?

is that how people justify themselves pushing upfront to the rail when they were not even close to getting there in time? that the cosmic wook gods have decided it's someone else's turn on the rail?

"hey had the cool clothes on and looked like dead heads... but not much love or kindness."

LOL.

"there's an added element because you can actually see what they're playing."

As the Chance the Gardner of watching musicians I can assure you that you can see what they're playing just fine from 20 rows back.  And you certainly get the big picture interaction better.

Cumberlyn has is exactly right.  This is about ego and little else.

It's about selfishness.

Here's an interesting fact; there are no yakkers on the rail.

And we all hate the yakkers.

So let's see, people who ride the rail are all assholes not there for the music, and everyone else is an asshole for talking and not listening to the music.

So in summation, everyone at a show is an asshole who is not there for the music, except for everyone complaining about everyone else.

This is a good time to thank the friends at TXR who get me to go to the rail and make protected space for me. There are a couple of you, LLTD and Mully come to mind right away. After a song or two I go back to where I was before, a place with more space. In the little Grate room, I can hear from everywhere and see from almost nowhere; that's the life of a short person.

>>>"there's an added element because you can actually see what they're playing."

As the Chance the Gardner of watching musicians I can assure you that you can see what they're playing just fine from 20 rows back.  And you certainly get the big picture interaction better.

if you'd have read the rest of my post where i say people who ride the rail in small places are sociopaths, you'd be agreeing with me.

unless you did read it and decided to quote me with out full context. then i'd say you're being "intellectually dishonest".

but we all like to have fun.

>>> So in summation, everyone at a show is an asshole...

a more accurate statement would be 'everyone who is an asshole is an asshole'

im gonna make a really serious statement about rail riders at drugband shows

hur-rumph hur-rumph hur-rumph

im really serious guyz

I have never met a rail rider who did so for any reason other than getting off on the music, the band and the raw energy behind it.  That up close and personal  face stealing shit is addicting. Its  a special living in the moment experience you just want to bottle.  I can not for one second imagine that ego has anything to do with it. I am kinda laughing at the suggestion it might. Silly rabbit. 

im not usually on the rail but ive had some great experiences on the rail here and there. barry sless and DNB melting faces in grass valley comes to mind

In my line of work, I spend a bit of time observing rail riders in their "natural habitat." As often as not, I am directly in front of the rail riders. The rail rider/fans of most performers aren't ego driven, nor selfish. The majority actually do their best to help out other fans who might be short by letting them in front or moving 6 inches this way or that. Except for the rail riders that follow the GD related bands...I can see how the OP got the idea that they are ego driven/selfish. Those "riders" at Phil Lesh/Furthur shows have such a much higher percentage of rude, self-entitled asses that any other fans I have ever dealt with. When I shoot one of the GD related shows, I am in the photo pit for 3 songs max. Despite myself and staff letting those people know that myself and other photographers will only be there for the first 3 songs, I've been cursed, spit on, had beers poured down my back, attempts to rip my camera strap from my body and camera and a host of other rude behaviors. 

In my opinion, they are the worst of all audiences I've experienced...at least the ones up front. Go back a few rows and they are among the best behaved audiences.

Go figure. 

anyone pushy enough to get to the front in a large typical GA crowd is most likely pushy in other aspects of their lives.

Tony, that is horrible !!  Sorry you have to go thru that...wow !!  That is mostly what I go see so there in lies my "judgemental" opinion...lol ...;)




Here's an interesting fact; there are no yakkers on the rail.>>>

I do not agree with this Lance, maybe most of the time...but my experience the other nite was actually quite the opposite...

I went to see Jeff Mattson and friends ( Jeff, Lisa,Skip,Rob and Rob's son Tom) ..it was my first time experiencing them and it was wonderful, I thought it was going to be all Dead songs but to my amazement there were only two GD songs !  They are creative and their sound had me wanting more, I did not know some of the songs but Damn, they sounded good. Jeff was cracking jokes and having fun.... their original songs are really good....Lisa's vocals were so much more appreciated in a small and "up close" kinda way....beautiful !!

She was singing a wonderful tune  and  the two goons directly  in front of she and Jeff were yakkking it up consistently and loud too,  A few times I noticed Jeff had glanced at  them like WTF ??? It was SO disrespectful and I actually could tell it was affecting her concentration, made me upset to see this. I didn't say anything and the song completed...but it def affected my experience and the delivery of the tune :( 

This is just my opinion, but please tell me WHY one would go to a show in a small venue, stand right in the musicians face and talk over the very loud music playing ? I totally feel this is a disrespectful douchebag  , that is an "All about ME, ME ME ....personality !  
 

I had another guy come up to me while my eyes were closed and I was enjoying the jamming music in my head, he nudged me ( which really startled me)...and proceeded to yell into my face who he praises and shoved some necklace in my face...WTF !!  

I leaned into his ear and quietly whispered " Fuck Off", lol....he walked away :)  

If my eyes are closed and I am smiling ear to ear while swaying and grooving....DO NOT come up to me and disturb me, Thank you ~

As skifurthur mentioned, "external regulation" by promoters is probably one of the few things that can help unless there's an "awakening".

The external regulation is always put in place by the performer, not the promoters. Promoters basically give no fucks about it. 

i just want to be able to hear, not be touched by people and left alone. moving/dancing is a bonus, so is being able to see. those rare times those things all line up is rad but not the norm. nelson rail hiearchy is pretty nuts.