For Judit, Regarding Face Masks

Nice mansplain, Lassen.

You wear a mask because you may be an asymptomatic carrier,  Lassen. 

Do you not understand that?

Lassen....you're a libertarian/freedom guy/gal, right?

Perhaps you can post something from your link? I'm not downloading a pdf.

From the Mayo clinic...

Can face masks help prevent the spread of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't yet know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to do an about-face on face masks. The CDC updated its guidance to recommend widespread use of simple cloth face coverings to help prevent transmission of the virus by people who have COVID-19 but don't know it.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coro...

Why Should I Consider Wearing a Face Mask?

Recent studies suggest that coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) may be transmitted by infected persons even in the absence of symptoms of disease. While social distancing and good hand hygiene are the most important methods to prevent virus transmission, new guidelines state that healthy individuals can consider wearing masks in public settings, particularly when physical distancing is difficult (like in grocery stores or pharmacies). Primary benefits of wearing a mask include limiting the spread of the virus from someone who knows or does not know they have an infection to others. Masks also remind others to continue practicing physical distancing. However, nonmedical masks may not be effective in preventing infection for the person wearing them. Masks should not be worn by children younger than 2 years or by individuals who are unable to remove the mask by themselves or are unconscious.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2764955

Lassen,  your JAMA link is from March, maybe check out a more recent article from JAMA, like the one I posted.

Masks LOL.

The amount of Americans that are rubes is absolutely off the charts.

It’s the new climate change...

I know, Tatters, science...pfft. Am I right?

that's a link to a medical journal published 90 fucking days ago - fucking dipshit

yes, Yes, YES LASSEN the best way to get re-elected in a democracy is to lie to your voters and ruin their economy. Totally makes sense. 

100,000 dead in four months, while much of the country was on lockdown, but is no worse than the flu?

It's worse than the flu, Lassen.  The fact that you believe that it isn't leads me to believe you are a fool.

Allow me to again ask you a question which you neglected to address...

Did the folks who died from kaposi sarcoma not die because of AIDS?

Putting all of your misinformation aside, I was asking Bryen to engage by answering my question, Lassen. He was rueing the lack of dialogue, I was asking him to have one.

I come from both an allopathic and CAM background and have a strong interest in accuracy. Your citations and explanations don't hold up.

Using info from 2 1/2 months ago in the UK has no relationship to current Covid-19 status in the U.S. Your point?

I hope that you remain safe and well.

Lassen pushing anti-mask nonsense from anti-vaxxer David Crowe's website "theinfectiousmyth" - LOL

Some of you boomers have absolutely lost whatever you used to pass off as intellect.

South Korea, Taiwan, both in much better position with regard to the deadly virus for numerous reasons (i.e. No denialist wannabe authoritarian in charge at Federal level) but also note that those folks are returning to work and life wearing masks without controversy...

...whereas here in the states we have drool faced idiots like Lassen pushing anti-vaxx idiot propaganda in the name of MY FREEDUMBS

LOL - how totally pathetic.  American exceptionalism at it's finest. You fuckin' idiots.

That's nice, Lassen,  the first link I posted is from may 28, the second April 17, so it seems that best practices here still include wearing a mask while in public. 

Scientists are learning new things every day, one recent concerning development is COVID-related inflammatory disease in kids.

These kiids have cleared the virus and test positive for the antibiotics.  This could be problematic as it relates to a viable vaccine for children. 

1.85 million cases

107,000 dead.

Both likely undercounts

>>>This whole "pandemic" has been nothing but misinformation from Day 1. A total cluster fuck.

So please let us know how you would have handled a brand new virus being released on a planet with 7 billion plus people that is now hyper connected. Did you know there were 50 direct flights a month from Wu Han to the US a month.

The experts said over and over again that they don't know and were giving out the best information at the time. That means things will change -  that isn't misinformation. 

Misinformation is telling people that masks don't work because it will mess up your make up and you don't want to be the only one not wearing a mask. 

Tony Robbins? 

Whoa

Pathetic 

Something to consider: There are people who deny that wearing a mask will help retard the spread of the virus by non-symptomatic people. Do you (will you) know if you are infected but asymptomatic? Are we not responsible for our community's health? How 'bout for the vulnerable in your family or circle of friends? We are not alone here. No one is an island.

100,000 dead in four months, while much of the country was on lockdown, but is no worse than the flu? <<<

40% of these deaths are from nursing homes. People who are in nursing homes (cover your sensitive ears) are on death's door. That's what happens in nursing homes. They die, frequently.

But instead of a concerted plan for the elderly, we get widespread panic and ridiculous fear based containment policies that don't do shit at the end of the day. 

Lassen pathetic

America is burning, but there are millions of fiddlers. We are all playing the same tune.

trump and republicans 

https://apple.news/AOl9Blo66S9CJh5EqEQH7yA

god bless you judit  I apologize if I detract from your commentary in thread

TonyMFRobbins!

No. Good luck if you attempt to validate your theory

Tatters is indeed an apt handle 

lemmings?

those that walk off of the ship to their death feel free

  Not wishing death on anyone mind you. (Trump?)

>40% of these deaths are from nursing homes<

Yes, Tatters,  and 60% are not. The flu also  kills the elderly and the  immune compromised, but not 107,000 in four months, while much of the country was on lockdown for 6-10 weeks.  It's not the flu

.

Tony Robbins: 'associate with wealthy people to become wealthy, associate with healthy people to stay healthy' 

Lassen sure got burned to the ground fast on this one.  

Jesus fucking Christ - people are asking you to wear a mask when you are out in public, and you all act like you are being asked to chew one of your own nuts off. 

Is it that you don’t care if you get sick? 

Or that you don’t care if you spread it to others?

Hey guys, first I'll tell you that I have an OSHA 30 hr training card, and also have a 32 hr lead abatement certification. Feel free to fact check what I tell you. Both training programs have a long section about masks and respirators. I am a union painter and we are constantly using dangerous products, around dust and silica particles and have to deal with ways of protecting our selves from different chemicals. Some chemicals we have to clean up are actually lethal so it could be a matter of life and death having the proper protection. 
 

So, the virus like other viruses spreads through organic vapors such as human breath. During the OSHA class our safety guy went into a lot of detail about the masks and respirator section seeing that our union has tapers, painters, and glaziers. Let's start with a regular face covering or bandana or cloth; so these items do not protect you from and kind of solid particles or organic vapors coming in. What that means is that they have not been rated by OSHA for any kind of PPM (particular per million) respiration if either solid particles or organic vapor. Then you have a standard N 95 mask. 95 means it protects you up to 95% to dust particles. N stands for NIOSH which is a company that rates consumer products for OSHA standards. Any non rated dusk masks are as useless as a bandana for respitory protection. This comes with a PPM limit to which I don't know of the top of my head but look at it this way, if you are in a confined space blasting lead off of steel a n95 doesn't do anything at all because of how many particles are in the air. An N 95 does not protect against organic vapors. So that means any kind of organic vapor can penetrate the mask. I am not currently aware of N95 masks that have organic vapor cartridge attachments but there could be some available. 
 

Moving on, so let's go to half mask respirators. We use these when spraying paint and coatings in buildings and when going into confined spaces but we use different cartridges for each. We have dust cartridges for and organic vapor cartridges. The vapor cartridges are what we use for spraying. Once you open them they have an 8 hr limit and then are done. The dust ones last up until they become full, pretty much.  When removing or blasting steel we use full hoods with an air connection line. So if we were to wear dust cartridges while spraying we are exposed fully to any and all organic vapors. I once went into a sulfuric acid tank to clean out left over sludge after it was drained. I had a full mask respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I also had on two full body tyveks with two pairs of rubber gloves and tyvek tape sealing any access points for vapor. That's because the vapor in those tanks could render us unconscious and even burn right through our skin. So wearing the dust cartridges could possibly be the end of your life.

Alright so what's the point of all that information? Well, the CDC recommended masks to impede the process of your breathe. They don't really do anything else than that. Right now they are actually doing studies to see the effectiveness because they aren't 100% sure of their use. If you are standing inside a room with a sick individual he is coughing then you are 100% at risk unless you are wearing a respirator with some kind of organic vapor filtration. A cloth covering will not impede the process of a cough that much and your mask is not designed or rated to withstand vapor. Six feet or not, you are at risk.
 

On the job I'm on right now we talk about it a lot because we all took the same classes and we don't truly believe that wearing a mask is really effective at all. Right now our job site has a mandatory rule of wearing face covers so we comply but there are over 100 trained individuals on the site who have been taught by OSHA instructors for decades that they do nothing against organic vapors. 
 

The CDC has been historically incorrect with statistical information and data. As we speak they currently have a different number of deaths in the USA than other tallies. They say you have a 3% chance of infections if two individuals standing six feet apart are wearing "masks". There are so many other factors involved that it seems very unlikely that's 100% accurate. That's all I got. Hope this was informative. I'm not telling anyone not to wear a masks or anything like. If you feel comfortable go for it. 

P.S. Your eyes are another way vapors can reach you

Wear a mask to protect others, wash your hands with soap and water early and often, and don't touch your eyes, mouth, nose or face, physically distance if you can. Pretty simple, pretty important.

Thanks for taking the time to share that info, Timpane.

>>>This whole "pandemic" has been nothing but misinformation from Day 1. A total cluster fuck.

It's ridiculous when people who tend to rationalize the irrational, and defend the indefensible put the word pandemic in quotes, suggesting that there really isn't a pandemic happening. I've read nonsense propaganda that uses made up words like plandemic, scamdemic, libtard ect. without quotes as if they are valid terms, yet uses quotes for pandemic. For the record, I offer a dictionary definition of the noun pandemic (it can also be used as a verb in this regard):

Definition of pandemic (Entry 2 of 2)

: an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area and affects an exceptionally high proportion of the population

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pandemic

6 million confirmed cases, and 371,000 deaths, with cases in every country on Earth qualifies for the covid-19 disease to be accurately described as pandemic, by definition.

Even if the conspiracy theorists and other deniers were correct in their baseless, convoluted, evidence lacking assertions that covid-19 deaths are over-reported, and the actual case and/or death numbers were significantly lower, covid-19 would still be a pandemic. Even if somehow a full 50% of the deaths were not really covid-19 related, then 3 million cases and 185,500 deaths would still be considered pandemic. 

Some of the most laughable rationalizations for denying the pandemic or claiming deaths are over counted are... old and sick people are going to eventually die anyway, it's just a flu, more people die of (insert arbitrary cause of death here) than coronavirus, hospitals are incentivized financially, AND of course the Democrats, liberal media, China, the majority of doctors, nurses and hospital administrators, CDC, WHO, Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates and Karen from Facebook are all part of the conspiracy and all competent enough and organized enough to cover it up and not make any mistakes that would leave indisputable evidence to prove these wrongdoings. 

Ridiculous!

love ya tofu

I have no problem whatsoever wearing a mask whenever I leave the house.  Nor do I hesitate to give a wide berth to anyone who is near me. 

Even if wearing a mask does not help those around me, it's still a nonverbal message to the members of my community that I care about their health and safety  I feel a great sense of connectedness with the people that I share space with. 

We're in this together 

DAMN YOU KAREN!!!!

And yeah Timpane, thanks for taking the time to write that.

I heard some jabber today that the virus could be more aerosol borne than originally thought, which means that it doesn't just drop but gets out into the air, floats all over the place and gets into the eyes as well. If that's true then damn. GOGGLES FOR ALL!!! 

Ultimately I guess we still don't know shit about this damned thing and everyone is trying to stave off desperation, so we're all wearing masks, any type of mask; it's got to be better than nothing, right???

I figure these mass protests going on in a separate current hell might tell us something about the virus, even though from what I can see on TV the massive majority of those protesting are in their 20s. If they start dropping we'll know something for sure about COVID, but if the kids don't start dropping what do we know then? That they're fine but us old-timers still need to hide?

Damn kids, causing troubles as always.

I've been wearing a mask because I'm legally required to do so right now in public places.

It’s a pretty simple concept, unless of course you need to politicize it

 Spending a great deal of my life saving you cocksuckers in operating rooms, intubating people who were told that everything was under control and they were safe, I’m pretty comfortable in a mask. I’m sorry you all have been so inconvenienced by it

((( you cocksuckers )))

Spending a great deal of my life saving you cocksuckers in operating rooms, intubating people who were told that everything was under control and they were safe, I’m pretty comfortable in a mask. I’m sorry you all have been so inconvenienced by it <<<<

A bit half hearted but apology accepted. Let's move on and learn from this.