Local perspective on the riots

Thanks for posting that, Noodler. I really found this part poignant:

The Gov. and the mayor are calling in thousands more National Guard Troops. We already had more National Guard troops in the city than ever before. They are doing a good job but were overwhelmed last night by sheer numbers. Gov. Walz is the highest ranking soldier to have ever served in Congress and led the National Guard - he clearly sees this for what it is and will fight it. This is now a military operation by the State of Minnesota against alt-right, white nationalists and anarchists that have come into Minneapolis to use the protests against police brutality as cover for their death fantasy.

awful.

in a nutshell, if you insist on being policed: stop hiring cops who don’t live in your towns or neighborhoods. It starts. right. there.

derek chauvin isn’t from Minneapolis either.

walz seems like a solid dude.

Someone should follow these MFers home.

Here is a post from a neighbor, "Everybody! We need to get our heads around what’s happening, Mpls and St Paul are being attacked by fascist “accelerationist” white crazies. Trying to divide & destroy us.

I recall this happening at DAPL protests too, where people clearly not on the water protector side were filmed sowing mayhem, presumably to encourage violent force against the water protectors. They chased one guy in a truck down who was firing into the crowd and he had credentials from the oil company in the truck's glovebox.

Thanks, Noodler. VERY illuminating. Don't doubt it.

The way the right wingers have been trying to pit public health against their "constitutional rights" to spread disease is mind boggling. 

Our enemies, foreign and domestic will take every opportunity to divide ths country. And the domestic ones call themselves "patriots". Yeah, right. Putin is smiling. No, laughing.  

Weird, I don't see any nazi's on TV looting?

Here in Chile you always find on twitter after the riots video footage of instigators of violence, who more and more often fit the pattern of white, clean cut, athletic dudes who start fires, break windows, generate mayhem in general and then seem to disappear. It's an uncanny thing. I can't for the life of me think that there would be much of a connection between riots in Chile and in the US, but the pattern is the same. There is always some random group of fuckwads who get into the legitimate protests at the end of the day and turn it into a violent looting and burning fest. Is this just a common cop tacti, to infiltrate and instigate to route out the ones who will jump in the violence? Is it a white supremacist accelerationist tactic around the world? Are we being paranoid? It's all very strange...

The agent provocateur has been a part of protest movements since the beginning of protest movements (e.g. COINTELPRO), but what we are seeing these past couple of nights is really confusing.  My guess its a proverbial witches brew of agitators, anarchists, activists, and just pissed off people, along with a few people looking to score free shit, coming together in big cluster fuck of mayhem and rage.

The idea that there is organized white supremacist and far right agitation is interesting and could have some legs.   Some on the far right are into promoting what they call the "boogaloo" or second civil war.  Most of those people are just wannabes playing dress up who run away at the first sign of real confrontation, but now and then, you get some loose cannons who are willing to take it to the next level.  Remember that Manson and his peeps were supposedly trying to instigate a race war, so there is precedent for that kind of thing.

The idea that there is organized white supremacist and far right agitation is interesting and could have some legs.   Some on the far right are into promoting what they call the "boogaloo" or second civil war.

its a frequent topic of discussion with him anyway, but alex jones has started talking about "the race war" almost every day since floyd was killed - in the first few days he didnt even really talk about floyd or MN at all, just started working "the race war" into his stream of consciousness rants...might be interesting to go back over some of those with this potential news in mind, or even to see if there are any mentions in the broadcasts leading up to the day floyd was killed

A curfew has just be called for Los Angeles tonight.

https://youtu.be/0g_MNpS9hM0

That should clear everything up

Ken posted >>> I hear there was even rioting and looting down in Eugene last night too. <<<

This was on facebook from a long-time acquaintance, a photographer for the Eugene Register-Guard newspaper who went to the riot last night in Eugene. Until recently the Register-Guard was a local family-owned paper that has been sold to Gannett and now to USA Today. They are shrinking the paper, furloughing reporters and photographers, and importing most news. All of that is sad, too.

Tonight Eugene became another community torn apart by the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

The whole episode makes me very sad. For George Floyd, his family, the people of color that have reason to fear, the business owners who lost their business tonight, the cops, many of whom I know, who had to come out and protect those businesses. I am not very sad for the owner of this car. He almost ran me over as he tried to barrel though the line.

All of it makes me bone tired.

But, I am immensely proud of the journalists I worked with tonight and want to thank the colleagues who texted me with information and concern as events unfolded.

Our coverage here: https://bit.ly/2TTLDjv

And a gallery of more images here: https://bit.ly/3dsWTek

Curfew in downtown Eugene from 9 PM to 6 AM tonight.

 Friend of mine just sent me this...

Department of Safety Commissioner John Harrington said they are contact-tracing the arrested and added that an investigation is underway about white nationalist groups posting online to encourage their members to use the protests as a cover to create chaos.

He said some of the 40 arrests made in the Twin Cities Friday night were of people linked to white supremacist groups and organized crime.

Seattle has a 5 p.m. to 5 a.m curfew in effect for Saturday and Sunday.  The governor just called in 200 National Guardsmen (unarmed).    The mayor has banned all weapons including improvised ones (e.g. rocks) in downtown which is closed off from traffic right now.  A couple of police cars and regular vehicles have been torched.  Nordstrom's and Old Navy have both been heavily looted. 

LA just called the national guard.

old navy, the very embodiment of capitalist oppression

I have participated in peaceful, non-violent protests for over 60 years. I don't understand why looting or burning business's is occurring, other than people being so excited and angry that logic escapes them. How's it helping the movement to burn and steal? In Eugene, it was only (imported?) white people hitting the businesses while the black people who were there were asking the rioters to protest peacefully. Eugene doesn't have a large population of POC, and there weren't a lot of them there last night. Looked like lots of white "anarchists" maybe.

Anyway, I don't get how it helps the movement, how it helps the message get out there that Black Lives Matter, that the police are murderers, that we are all in this together. I guess that's a different message?

SLC rioting, cars burned, just f'in stupid. Curfew tonight 8 PM to Monday at 6 AM. 

>>>I don't get how it helps the movement

You raise a lot of good points Judit.  Peaceful protests can be effective in many circumstances.  A protest is a message or show of force to the government to demonstrate how many people it will have to go through if it wants to continue its oppressive or otherwise wrong policies.  A peaceful protest is a polite request for the government to change its ways, but when coupled with targeted property damage, it ups the ante and is a more forceful demand.  After what we have seen over the past few days, I don't think anyone will forget the name George Floyd anytime soon.

History is full of examples of where property damage has been a powerful tool in bringing social change, from the Boston Tea Party to nuns taking hammers to nuclear warheads in the 1980s.  The labor movement of the late 1800s and early 1900s wouldn't have had nearly the impact as it did if it wasn't for people willing to break stuff when necessary.  Monkeywrenching is another, more modern example of how property damage has been strategically used to protect important natural habitats.   

Of course, property damage needs to be targeted and not random and should be done in a manner that minimizes the risk to human life.  For example, setting fires to occupied buildings should be off limits.  Also, the stealing aspect should be kept under control lest the underlying political message be lost, although I can't really blame marginalized poor people from taking advantage of the situation.  But ultimately, if the purpose of the protest is to save lives of oppressed or marginalized people, it is important to remember that people's lives hold higher value than property. 

Why does the impetus for social justice and equity brought on by violent revolution always seem to get derailed?  
 

The Boston Tea Party led to the Revolutionary War, which begat Manifest Destiny, the subjugation of the 1st Nation's Native Americans, the institution of Slavery, the Military-Industrial Complex, institutionalized racism, corporate welfare, great wealth disparity, and so on.  
 

The Slave Revolt in Haiti was the only one to succeed in the Western Hemisphere, and 230 years later, that country is a mess.

Like Dr. John used to sing, "Money is the root of all evil."

Just remembered that Dr. John actually sang, "Woman is the root of all evil".  The phrase "root for all kinds of evil is the love of money" has been sourced to the Koine Greek civilization of 336 B.C.-300 A.D.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_of_money

We'll just consider Dr. John's take a lagniappe:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBLJsxMbb8

Shoo-rah.

>>>>>After what we have seen over the past few days, I don't think anyone will forget the name George Floyd anytime soon.

Most of the news is now about the rioting and the LE response. Without all the destruction they would still be talking about Floyd and the cop that killed him.

>> they would still be talking about Floyd and the cop that killed him.

My god... you really believe that, don't you?

I've seen some interesting cultural relativism surrounding the rioting, looting, and overall destruction: unless you're black in America you have no idea what it's like, and you're in no place to comment on how the black community is responding.

I'm not sure that I agree with that, at all.

Why don't you give your culturally enlightened perspective, BrianK. It is the white man's burden to civilize, after all. Please feel free to explain to us simpletons.

Shut up. People are trying to have conversations here.

I am asking you to clarify or expound upon your opinion of cultural relativism, Brian K.

Don't be such an obstinate old shitbag. I get it that you have one. Doesn't mean you have to be one.

Again, shut up.

>>>>>History is full of examples of where property damage has been a powerful tool in bringing social change, from the Boston Tea Party to nuns taking hammers to nuclear warheads in the 1980s.  The labor movement of the late 1800s and early 1900s wouldn't have had nearly the impact as it did if it wasn't for people willing to break stuff when necessary.  Monkeywrenching is another, more modern example of how property damage has been strategically used to protect important natural habitats. 

How does burning convenience stores and looting dispensaries equate to  the Boston Tea Party or destroying warheads or protecting the environment by breaking the bulldozers? I don't see it.

You are right Surf, it's not equivalent and attacking small businesses like that is wrong and counterproductive.   The protesters down in Eugene should have stuck with cop cars and banks (and maybe a Louis Vuitton store for good measure but not sure if there is one down there).

Well, in our current paradigm cops and banks are necessary, so I don't support attacking them.

I don't own a business, but if I did, and if you were threatening to burn it, I'd probably shoot you.

On the news coverage of the protests/curfew and police/national guard response in Reno there was a protester with a Twiddle sweatshirt on. My perspective was that that dude has no shame and that the police response was way overdone. 

This nation needs some good old burning and looting every once in a while. Don't worry, stores can be rebuilt and owned by white people again.

...

Protests in the modern age are a whole different thing than they used to be. Sometime in the past five years they morphed, and started becoming spaces of contested and intermingled realities. You have an entire range of actors in there. There are masses of people who still protest peacefully. There are left-wing type anarchists looking to fuck shit up and take advantage of the chaos. There are right wing kooks who are trying to ignite civil unrest and want to start shit with others. There are right wing peaceful protestors. There are looters. There are undercover cops in there who depending on what you believe or see, may be there to arrest people who are doing illegal and dangerous things, or they may be there to instigate and agitate to justify their existence and also push at the borders like the far-right violent kooks.

It's all mixed together, now. There is no clear message anymore. There are no leaders. Social media is the voice of organization. It's amorphous, dynamic, volatile and scary (to me).

But regardless of all that, I don't support violence - it's not my style. But to deny that it's effective is just to deny history. Here in Chile we have been living in post-dictatorship neoliberalism for 30 years which has been slowly crushing people's livelihoods and dignities until it all blew up last October. In 30 years no one had made any decisive action on the matter of inequality and social justice in the country, but the crazy violence of that period of time forced the politicians to make an agreement and to set-up a vote for a new constitution. Unfortunately, without the violence, they never would have done anything at all. It's not a solution (the new constitution) and with coronavirus happening now it's all been shelved, but the violence moves politics. And that happens over and over and over and over again throughout history. The powerful don't listen until their cages are rattled.

I don't support looting or burning any business. But again, insurance exists for a reason. Economic chaos unsettles the ruling class and if the working class is put on shaky grounds with their livelihood, they grow restless and more likely to turn their anger against an ineffective government. So it still ends up feeding into creating the unrest that forces social change.

>>>>>>I don't own a business, but if I did, and if you were threatening to burn it, I'd probably shoot you.

Over a yoga studio?

>over a yoga studio?<

The headquarters of the United Daughters of the Confederacy in Richmond,VA (the literal capital of the confederacy) was burnt last night.

Fortunately nothing of value was lost.

He's fuckin' here!

https://mobile.twitter.com/exoltyy/status/1266916658972626946

cornel west https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90G_QdxqqJs

killer mike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy9io6VEt58

>>I don't support looting or burning any business. But again, insurance exists for a reason. Economic chaos unsettles the ruling class and if the working class is put on shaky grounds with their livelihood, they grow restless and more likely to turn their anger against an ineffective government. So it still ends up feeding into creating the unrest that forces social change.<<

very succinct Javs

>>>Don't worry, stores can be rebuilt and owned by white people again.

This was not the case in Los Angeles following 1992 riots, but keep talking shit you know nothing about.

grrrrr! remember when using the word Mohave made you mad?

>>>>>Over a yoga studio?

Dude,  it's a yogurt stand. Try to keep up.

https://www.rrstar.com/

Rockford went  sideways last night.After a generally peaceful protest, it went wrong.  Scattered looting all around town. TERRIBLE 

Some of these businesses are 2min drive from our house. The police station is within eyeline of my aunt & uncles house. crazy

Still burning

House Burning Down 
https://youtu.be/FnYWfVPT5aI

Text from a friend in Philadelphia...

It's bad, be glad you Live waaay out there

>>Briank (Briank) on Sunday, May 31, 2020 – 09:28 am

>>Again, shut up.

What fucking magic did you work here, Brian? ateix actually did shut up after your post. Right on, Magic Man.

Stay Classy Latex.

Stay classy yourself, there, psycho leather vest.

And your little 6imp bitch, too.

Sure thing boo boo.

Seems like boo boo is a little angry again

Time to to let it go and turn the page, people.

Be the change.

First to hurl, are always to the first to run.

Fuck that little bitch.

So my son flew back to DC last night.  He says most the shops on his block are boarded up and some, like the liquor store across the street and the nearby CVS, look like they got hit.   He is going to skateboard down to the protests with a friend later today.   He says some of his classmates have been posting pictures of themselves dancing on Secret Service cars, etc. and saw another on the news getting hauled off by the cops.   I urged him not to get himself filmed doing something he wouldn't want his employer or the Bar to see (he has a job lined up with a big Manhattan law firm for after he graduates next spring), but he signed up to be a legal observer for the National Lawyers Guild at the protests starting tomorrow so I assume that will keep him out of trouble.   

Sounds like a smart kid, Ken.  Trust him to make good decisions.

RRG, you can hold on to a grudge until it eats you, or you can let it go and move on.  The choice is always yours.

I'm tired of watching him crossing the line

he dishes and dishes, until folks dish back

when they finally do..

He always goes for the low 

very personal over the line blows

ALWAYS.

He bitches about this place,and the *ahem* "old" folks that participate here on the reg.

And gets his fucking kicks being a little bitch antagonist.

I calls em as I sees em Dave.

<<He always goes for the low 

<<very personal over the line blows

Stay classy yourself, there, psycho leather vest.

Really.  The above actually hurts your feelings and is below the belt?

 

∞ if you aren't part of the solution... ∞

 ateix on Sunday, May 31, 2020 – 09:19 am

Why don't you give your culturally enlightened perspective, BrianK. It is the white man's burden to civilize, after all. Please feel free to explain to us simpletons.

 

Briank

 Briank on Sunday, May 31, 2020 – 09:25 am

Shut up. People are trying to have conversations here.

 

∞ if you aren't part of the solution... ∞

 ateix on Sunday, May 31, 2020 – 09:26 am

I am asking you to clarify or expound upon your opinion of cultural relativism, Brian K.

Don't be such an obstinate old shitbag. I get it that you have one. Doesn't mean you have to be one.

 

Briank

 Briank on Sunday, May 31, 2020 – 09:28 am

Again, shut up.

*This is not just about how I have been insulted.

But please do carry on...and kindly GFY

We received text notification at 11:something tonight that Eugene is under curfew from midnight til tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. Not much notice, and I heard that the police are staging at the University.

Stay safe, stay home.

I have a killer dead show on cassette, one of my 1st traded shows. Really great, high vibe all the way through, can't remember the date, and the only label on it was -  Hey Eugene, This Place Has Mice

Gotta dig that one out again. Thanks for joggin my memory

The police set up a little show last nite and snared up a few unlucky souls.

Where was the location of the main phalanx, you ask?

Right at the entrance of the city mall.

F.T.P.

Look here, Ateix is a tagger now.  You're so hip.  

Hey Ras - that show was 5-8-84 at the Hult Center in Eugene - I was there. Jerry looked like death warmed over. I was shocked - hadn't seen him since Veneta 82.

The music was pretty hot though.

Thanks surf, that'll be my afternoon show. 

 >>Jerry looked like death warmed over

found the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XurJZoz8Wwk

around the 45 minute mark

classic Fat Man Wobbles but he don't fall down during the TenJed guitar solo!

Whoa.

It is really happening everywhere

https://twitter.com/annehelen/status/1267634621430165504

Always loved that Hult Center show.   Used to think that my dubbed copy was a little fast, but that was how they played it that night.  To think that Bob and Bill once played at those tempos.  It's cool to see the video, even if it's fairly dim.  I don't recall ever seeing Phil walk all the way across the stage like he does to talk to Bobby and Jerry before the segue into Touch out of Scarlet.  Phil with the audible?  I'm also wondering what that delay effect on Brent's keyboard is?   It's really pronounced on the Jack Straw and you can hear it on the Touch.  There are a bunch of shows from the '84 era I've noticed this on.

Sad Story last night in Providence. 

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/06/02/providence-place-mall-protests-riots-fire-police-cruiser-george-floyd/

https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/providence/violence-destruction-erupt-overnight-in-providence/

Fuck The Agitators.

Ugly scene for sure, RRG. Interesting post. You live in Providence? 

>.Interesting post?


Interesting in what way? Does she have to live there to recognize that it's a sad story?

I have family in Rhode Island. Is this okay?

Quahog

>> fuck the agitators 

I saw that there was an online campaign to target New England Malls for looting and vandalism last night.

Local law enforcement agencies saw these too, and shut down some of the malls early, and established a presence to protect the storefronts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/local-malls-board-up-natl-guard-brought-in-for-protection/vi-BB14WkL2Was 

Fucked up Stuff that gives peaceful protesters a bad name. 

Law Enforcement exists to uphold the rights of property owners.

End of story.

RRG lol do you find it hard to keep up with all the different storylines when the voices are talking in your head?

>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/local-malls-board-up-natl-guard-bro...

Sorry, we can't show you. - 500 Internal Server Error

Cool links, man.

Whoopsie, here ya go Latex!!!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/local-malls-board-up-natl-guard-brought-in-for-protection/vi-BB14WkL2

Thanks pussylips.

Hit me up when you shave the moustache.

I could use a new mop!

Ateix, shut the fuck up.

Alright there, colostomybag.

Your magic worked.

I''m vanished.

((( bk's 'ignore' button )))

Pro Tip:

The Hudson Valley had Peaceful Protests Today.

Which side are you on, boys? Fascist or Antifascist? 

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32742452/rahul-dubey-dc-black-liv...

I Just saw the story about that Gentleman, incredible Citizen.

Damn that’s a compelling article.

rrg when do you find the time to do work between your trolling which is essential to this site's life support system

Great article, thanks.

Judit I do not get why you are emailing me if you do not know how to  moderate this site properly.

I get that you figured out the "Block" function. That, an admin does not make.

You think my posts are trolling I think you should take a break from Viva, and figure out why the people in the below email are allowed to follow me around the site ad nauseum:

Subject: take a break from viva?

 

Dear Ateix,

 

Your reactions are quick and you're posting stuff that doesn't work to RRG and BrianK. Is it time to take a break again? So soon? 

 

I am seriously asking before blocking you from posting. Can we make this work without our having to take action? 

 

~ judit

-- 

 

The Viva Crew

Viva la Zone!

I will take my beatings here.

Thank you.

>>>  I will take my beatings here.

        Thank you.  <<<

help me understand this...

you're feeling oppressed?

thank god covid is over?

You trying to attack a moderator on a a pl board because you don't like the terms you signed up for?

dude

Ateix is a victim.  Who's licking boots, son?

lol racket, you are of course! lick another one, and pray to daddy that the "thugs" dont get you

thod, i wonder what misdeeds i did in my past to have you as one of my trolls lol

fuck you trustiefarian

Lol

We've talked about you lying to make a point, especially  when facts are in the same thread. Everyone can go up and see my posts, and then see that attacked me and called me names. The temper tantrum is a really bad look. Jesus.

Have you considered shutting the fuck up?

bk and the made up history. obsession.

lets talk about this, bk - i don't give a fuck about your past fuckups or some work story. spend another six years thinking about it, but in the meantime blame someone else for your own misdeeds lol

...

Good deal. I'm going to head out to tag some locally owned businesses, and maybe beat up an elderly couple accidentally out after curfew.

Racket, make sure you post some trump memes as well. Mix it up. You're getting lost in the shuffle, soon forgotten all over again.

Whoa

Atiex, your posts broadcast similarity to the same personality type of the current president of the U.S., currently. 

In similar ways.

Similarly. Currently.

atiex- what sort of obscure hipster music will you be listening to while you beat up this elderly couple?

and hey rrg what do you have against the alligators? what did they ever do to you? are you a crocodile supremacist?

If it's just a hit and run drive-by, I'd suggest Sleaford Mods.  If you want something more elaborate and drawn out, Tame Impala's your jam.

>>figure out why the people in the below email are allowed to follow me around the site ad nauseum:

That's the punch line to the joke, right?

June just started and we have ajax, pyro, greg and who else, on the verge of total mental collapse. 

2020 will forever be known as,  the year of the zoner meltdowns

My advise, listen to more Mahavishnu fellas, or maybe some GD

Hot Damn! I have some Mahavishnu Orchestra albums in my Cupboard.

>>Atiex, your posts broadcast similarity to the same personality type of the current president of the U.S.

That's really funny because I can picture his exact words coming out of Trump's mouth. It's uncanny. I chalk it up to the same level of social maturity. 

"Birds of Fire", 6. 

ras you certainly post my name a lot. total mental collapse? haha. 

were you an altar boy? 

did 6 get an email for sharing the name of my business? 

I got an email from yelp.

Missed it in case you would like to share.

Imagine your surprise to be at work slinging pies and get a tap on your shoulder from a zoner. 

Forget the pizza,  zoners would come from near and far just to see what the fuck todays radical wingnuts looks like - 

>>Missed it in case you would like to share.

Yeah that would probably be because I did not directly or intentionally name his place of business, but facts and all.
 

Slickrock - Birds of Fire is a favorite, for sure.

i wouldn't mind that (unless is was thom or one of the other white nationalists here on viva).  

you did, 6. knowing it was very simple to figure it out from there. 

You really believe that no one here has enough brains to google pizza and Burlington, VT together on their own and get a list of retuarants? Please.

You posted yourself you had a pizza place in Burlington, VT - and 1 +1 still = 2. 

Do you have a bunker in your restaurant basement in case zoners come to loot your place?

ras, not allowing hip hop played in your catholic house seems pretty radical. 

I would stop by - and stay for food, depending on the beer selections

ajax I'm sorry you got a head like a potato, I really am

Bty holmes, it wasn't hip-hop. It was rap. No rap music played in my house ever. I owe it to Miles, who said it perfectly - "rap is crap"

of course.

you also posted the name. please. 

Ras is a sock.

6 so many edits -- just don't go posting any other zoner's businesses, ok? 

its one of the lowest forms of trolling. 

so you were an altar boy. 

this explains a lot. 

Okay. Let me know when the first zoner (who is not your friend already) comes into your business. 

i'll pass on that. 

just reminding you why you're the worst zoner. 

>>i'll pass on that. 

Yeah I figured you're not one to follow through if it does not help your agenda.

Also - it's possible there are other zoners here who vastly disagree with you on who's the worst zoner. I think some even think you're on that list.

i have no agenda -- you're the one posted the name. haha. 

oh i'm sure -- but you're def the worst man. 

i have never shared a zoners place of work w/ the group. 

you at least have me beat. 

A vote?

Whoops - now did YOU edit?

Whoa

Fuck all the nonsense, who TF wouldn't want your pizza business known ?  Make new friends, expand the base and all. Or is this place so fucked you'd worry about some type of harm someone might pull ?  We can be major hardheads, but I hope to hell we're not that kind of asshole.

I'd have a slice and a beer with anyone'a you hardhead assholes. Meet at pyro's and we'll see what all this healthy ingredient pizza shits all about , pick a date.

Ras is a sock. He will never have a beer or a slice with anyone here, there, or anywhere, ever. Facts.

Poor ajax

And your gravity's down
And negativity won't pull you through

Don't put on any airs
When you're down on Rue Morgue Avenue
They got some hungry women there
And they'll really make a mess out of you

Bty holmes, it wasn't hip-hop. It was rap. No rap music played in my house ever. I owe it to Miles, who said it perfectly - "rap is crap"

ras- this is 100% a mirror image of older folks in the 50's 60's and 70's telling kids their rock music was "just noise"...they probably tied it into bob going electric or something to gain credibility by naming an artist who plays older style music but is still respected by the current generation as you have done with miles, or others do with jerry's oft quoted and massively ignorant line about how rap isnt music.

if you post your 10 favorite artists anf 10 favorite albums, i will link you to a rap album you will like.

No matter what the name of his business is - I sincerely hope it lasts through the pandemic and has a long and successful run. Fact.

No matter what the name of his business is - I sincerely hope it lasts through the pandemic and has a long and successful run. Fact.

Long. Who is you favorite rapper?

Larry, thanks all the same, but no matter the msg, I just can't get beyond the beat. Bland repetative bullshit. I need a shot of  rhythm with my blues.  Ice-T knew how to crossover to me, I dig Body Count. Yeah Fuck rap, but by all means enjoy if that's your cup of tea.

And my parents were sooooooooooo right.

Their Big Band stuff kicks the shit out of any horses ass rock music, by leaps and bounds.

And what 6 said.

dont know if i could pick just one...

here are a few that are more straightforward hip hop - samples, computerized production, aggressive delivery etc -

El-P - Fantastic Damage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN6Jw9z-c1A

GZA - Liquid Swords https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA49DaVmJWQ&list=PLxahdgiSQjypZNo-HGt9Zj...

Mr. Lif - I Phantom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDfM7ymclho

Company Flow - Funcrusher Plus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVyXe5lFKpc

Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kekROxOTHSM

here are a few that rely more on live music, funk, jazz etc

GURU - Jazzmatazz Vol 1(branford marsalis lays down sax on this album, someone tell branford this isnt real music) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ5MhvAz5lI

Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly(the best rap album in at least 20 years, the seminal hip hop album of the current generation...also featuring george clinton and other funkadelic members...someone tell george clinton he isnt playing real music) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE8gISNPz7I

Shabazz Palaces - Black Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67cx9M2c51M

here are a few that conform more to modern hip hop using autotune and modern mublerap-esque delivery

ASAP Rocky - Fukk Sleep ft FKA Twigs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM5XogpX1JA

FKA Twigs - Holy Terrain ft Future https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJRyBWpuvA

here are a few that are so wildly experimental or psychedelic that i cannot categorize them

Aesop Rock - Labor Days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQg8Z4Z8mjc

Aesop Rock - Float https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-7jk-Nzgfw

.clipping - .clipping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw7Y1tevtRc&t=789s

.clipping(the guy spitting staccato gangsta rap over brutal noise here also plays thomas jefferson in hammilton) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nibVU1RjAM

Death Grips(I RULE THE NICKELS...THE GAME IS MINE) - Exmilitary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPtPo8Sa3NE

Bones - BlackMold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWhswK7A4D8

for folks who are older and dont really like rap, id reccomend Aesop Rock's Labor Days, Guru's Jazzmatazz Vol 1 and Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly

my personal faves are probably Aesop Rock's Labor Days, Kendrick's To Pimp a butterfly, El-P's Fantastic Damage, Shabazz Palaces' Black Up, and .clipping's self titled album

The stuff from .clipping and Death Grips are probably not going to turn on any zoners...i love them but they are so far out, noisy and inaccesible that i just dont see many folks here really wanting to listen

>>GZA - Liquid Swords

Just one of the best albums of any kind ever. 

"Shit is deep on the block and you got me locked down
In this cold, cold world..."

If you can’t find value, education, and knowledge in this, then I really just don’t know what to tell you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3kg0mh3lu9Q

ras and lltd -

Kendrick with live band -

Untitled 8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziv-WGRLcE

i - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sop2V_MREEI

these two tracks are like the antithesis to repetitive hip hop beats...in 30 years kendrick lamar will be held in the same esteem that bands like led zeppelin and other legendary 70's rock acts are held in today and these vids show why that is

btw lltd - i found you some michoacan seeds

http://swamiseed.org/seed-request/

the chances you will find this strain for sale in todays market are pretty much zero - but it is still there and attainable if you want to pop some seeds in the backyard...its listed at the very bottom of the seed list as "2017 michoacan mexican"

Ice-T "Power" is one of my top 10 albums of all time.

I really like Anderson Paak's "Malibu."

6 and mice - have you investigated kendrick yet? only listening to older/underground hip hop is an easy habit to fall into and one that ive been in for almost my entire hip hop listening career - but kendrick represents a massive creative leap in popular hip hop that has not happened since the golden age of hip hop...there are many artists that are a part of this creative revolution but kendrick is the symbolic leader of the resurgence of creative and artistically valid popular hip hop...IMO to pimp a butterfly stands up to liquid swords and all the classic "best of all time" hip hop albums from that era - he is the tru heir to the mantle of folks like tupac, biggie, dre, snoop etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTvV9JyNaS8

Nope, but I sure will man. What album should I get? To pimp a butterfly? This is good, Like, the whole album start to finish type?

Unfortunately swami has some “issues” concerning the provenance of his genetic material. I say this with first hand experience, and not as hearsay. This is not to say he doesn’t have nice lines (um, NL5 x Haze F4?) only that if you are looking to acquire something for posterity or actual breeding work you could probably find a better source.

here's a bit of super  wild experimental r&b

FKA Twigs - M3LL155X(this is a 20min music video for an entire EP and is one of the most balls out mindfuck psychedelic music videos of all time...with each passing song it just gets crazier and crazier until the video ends up in a demonic crossdressing fasion show populated by people who all have weird, borderline deformed faces set in the middle of the woods after FKA twigs gave birth to dripping rainbow paint/ripped streams of rainbow fabric out of her vagina in the back of a panel van parked in desolate woods) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYU3j-22360

ROSALÍA - DE AQUÍ NO SALES (music video visually inspiried by jonathan glazer's under the skin) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4lZs8fVRQ

ROSALÍA - A Palé  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zwpwbdGNIk

Ramsey - Darkside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ68vrIdQBI

and a couple that are not so wild but no less great -

Frank Ocean - Blonde https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tT32VTll5M

KeiyaA - Forever, Ya Girl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdvasDHYZ4&list=OLAK5uy_n2qkfZfms9OVJVS...

Earl Sweatshirt is worth checking out if you're into current underground hip-hop.  
 

Ras should give the Jurassic-5 a spin.

i enjoy earl, im a little more into tyler the creator...used to watch loiter squad all the time in high school before they really had rap careers

Nope, but I sure will man. What album should I get? To pimp a butterfly? This is good, Like, the whole album start to finish type?

yes, to pimp a butterfly, and yes, listen to the whole thing. there are repeating musical and lyrical themes that weave in and out of different songs throughout the album, its meant to be listened to as a whole

untitled is also a great one - its all the unused tracks from the pimp a butterfly sessions mastered into an album

and im not a big swami fan, i think he represents the pseudoscience spritutality aspect of the industry that im trying to move away from...last year he posted a photo in IG of him dripping water from the ganges on each of his seedlings for the "vibes" or whatever, and hundreds of people piled on teasing him about putting water on his plants contaminated with poop and corpses, it was pretty funny. but lltd has been asking if i can find a few strains from his youth and this is the closest ive come so far.

Recommendations given so highly, I guess I will have to check some of this stuff out 

outside on the deck

no rap in my house

, I just can't get beyond the beat. Bland repetative bullshit. I need a shot of  rhythm with my blues.  

Gangstagrass might be as close as I get, and that's probably hip-hop not rap, but it's something.

I like this one better than most of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9O2_eh0dM&list=RDkAgVPEmf2ws&index=3

ras - will there be enough room out there to boggie? i have heard thru the grapevine that you have a very small deck

judit - you may enjoy jazzmatazz

Like this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE

^ I like it, Bss.

>>6 and mice - have you investigated kendrick yet

Well, I know that Untitled 8 is a very important message.

And yes indeed. I have listened to Damn quite a bit. Having a 21 year old daughter helps keep me somewhat current. I will admit I prefer old school - but I like some of what I hear currently. Certainly Anderson Paak is a gem right now.

daylight, I'll certainly give it a try.

Bss that sounds like The Band.

and judit im sure you will dig this - perhaps many more zoners are framiliar with this one, its common on the festival circut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKTXJUYiAT4

daylight - I gave it a 90 for danceability (American Bandstand reference), but I got tired of the banjo and her voice. I'll listen to more of their stuff because I know they're a popular band, but I could only listen to this one before getting tired of it.

I'll listen to jazzsmatazz a little later.

As always, I appreciate that y'all try to help me expand my musical experiences.

i have heard thru the grapevine that you have a very small deck<<<<<

Probably suffers from porch envy...

Nice Bss, but any music with a mandolin is not rap.

Hit Em Up cool stuff, once again nowheres near rap. Reminds me of the coffee house jams from the 70's

Ras, since I'm along on this mystical rap ride, what is rap to you that excludes the things you mentioned? I don't listen to rap, but I don't have a prohibition against it in my home. Now, opera? That's a whole different problem.

> Now, opera? That's a whole different problem<

Not even Carmen? 

Judit, it's the heavy repetitive beat no melody anger fueled undecipherable lyric except for the occasional motherfuckin bitch whore shit you hear from jr thugs at stoplights cranked to 11.

What it is I couldn't tell you, but I know I don't like it.

BTW was anyone ever able to nail down slackers exact form of autism, or is he still floating around in the 'unknown' category ?

No, OCTL, not even Carmen. For the sake of accuracy, I have listened to Tommy in my house.

No peanut butter either, except a small jar to use as rat bait.

"Gangsta Rap" turned off a lot of folks, Ras, although I think the originators, N.W.A., were misunderstood.  Their satire was missed by many who thought they were being a lot more realistic than they were.  There is plenty of socially conscious Hip Hop from the Golden Era before Gangsta Rap took over that I'm sure you would like.  I turned many Deadhead friends who were anti-rap on to hip-hop with  A Tribe Called Quest's first album, "People's Instinctive Rhymes And The Paths Of Rhythm".  De La Soul's "Three Feet High And Rising" was another one.   Not surprisingly, the Gangsta crowd referred to these bands as Hippie-Rap.  Public Enemy and the Beastie Boys were out before both of these bands and created legendary classic early works in the genre.  

Judit, Raz is a sock. 

I'm with Judit. I'll pass on both opera and peanut butter.

Judit, do you like peanuts? I love them, but I've always hated peanut butter. 

Ras, that heavy repetitive beat no melody you're describing always sounds way too aggressive to me, even though the person listening to it may not be aggressive. Important to make that distinction. It's just music, though it may not be to my taste, either.

Brian, I like the taste, but can't stand the smell of both the nuts and the butter. Like make me sick kind of smell.

Knotesau, thank you for your information. Raz, are you qualified to diagnose and do you have permission to discuss someone's medical condition publicly? I don't think so.

ATLiens by outkast is great. 

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQcgmeGJ_OTa9awL-hyC59Va412pHNfCW

Interesting. I guess I dislike the smell and taste of peanut butter (all nut butters, really), but not peanuts themselves. It makes no sense.

Any particular track to listen to first? There are a lot of them in the link.

<<<>>>Judit, it's the heavy repetitive beat no melody anger fueled undecipherable lyric except for the occasional motherfuckin bitch whore shit you hear from jr thugs at stoplights cranked to 11.

ras, do you huff gasoline? 

also -- jr thugs? 

interesting...

My bad, no pizza for me

zoners talking hip hop always makes me lol. 

((( 2 dope boys in a Cadillac )))

Judit; it’s kind of an all the way through type of experience with a lot of hip hop albums. They follow a storyboard of sorts. (like ATLiens). Might roll up a smoke and think of it more like listening to a movie.

and I admit I haven’t listened to Kendrick Lamar in the past because I stereotype people who wear skinny jeans.

zoners talking hip hop always makes me lol.

i had been listening to rap - including some of the albums i listed above - for about a decade before id even heard a single note of the grateful dead

Slacks ha ha Joke and Knotty in a good way. shudder

Not a big hip hop fan.  Like NWA, Wu Tang Clan, and Public Enemy, but don't usually dive deeper than that.   Really like the Beastie Boys, but they are much more than a rap or hip hop group.

Never heard this album before, but its got a cool title.   Wonder if its any good? 

Guess I need to hear some more of the good stuff.   IMHO - 90% of popular music is garbage, whether it is rap, rock, country, pop, etc.

Very worst show I went to was Snoop Dogg.  The mix was just horrible as were the opening acts.  Couldn't make out a word he was saying.

at work i'm stuck listening to the local atlanta hip hop stations.

i've been listening to practically the same dozen songs all day everyday for months

it is not much fun.

>>> Couldn't make out a word he was saying <<<
 

That never stopped me from seeing Electric Hot Tuna!

amg

2 live crew 

Allergic to peanut butter here, and don't like most rap. I do like some, though, including some of the stuff mentioned above. Didn't see any mention of the Roots, a good rap group for those who profess not to like rap.

Yeah, 90% of any genre is crap.

Esper fired in 3,2,1..

i don't know any popular music made between 1990 and 2004.

daylight - went to that site but am confused my the "donation" per pack of 15 - is the donation  price on the far right?

looks pretty cool i picked out 5 candidates- I may not have your correct contact info ro inquire further

thx

the 2020 inventory is much the same

>>>i don't know any popular music made between 1990 and 2004.

Oh my.  Missed out on the Spin Doctors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXWbMu4PtpE

I tried the Kendrick album, it’s not for me. I made it to track 7 before turning it off. Way too sample heavy, way too little vocal flow, and whatever his message (from my perspective), is drowned out by too much simple minded and unoriginal dick/pussy nonsense. 

But I'm ready to try another daylight. Keep it coming. 

The Cool was the last “new” hip hop album I ever bought in a store, fwiw.

This Thread Needs a little Queen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cHxydDb7o

Latifa

U.N.I.T.Y